clutch rattle noise. not sure if its normal????

Discussion in 'GS Boxers' started by roadtrip22, Jan 1, 2012.

  1. roadtrip22

    roadtrip22 Been here awhile

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    The other day i took the my 2006 r1200gs up the street and back. Bike did just fine. I have 14000 miles on it. i didn't wear a helmet just for going to the end of the block and back. but i noticed a little rattling sound when i was turning around. With the helmet on i don't hear anything. With the clutch out and in neutral it makes rattling sound but when i pull the lever in the noise goes away and sounds fine. I don't notice any issues out riding or shifting. But I'd rather deal with this while I'm in the garage than out somewhere hrs away from home or any dealer. Bike just had its 6000 mile service by the dealer and 12000 mile service is due at 18K.
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  2. Long Gone

    Long Gone Objectivist

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    I had the same noise in my '05 GS. The dealer told me it's the push rods that activate the clutch. They run through the shaft from the slave cylinder and shorten up during use which allows for movement which makes the rattling noise. It sounds terrible but supposedly it's not a problem.
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  3. RED CAT

    RED CAT Bumpy Backroader

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    A lot of GSs do it. Mine is really bad and has gotten worse. So much so that I am trying to eliminate it by installing a new clutch and preasure plate. If it doesn't improve after I get it all back together, its going for sale and possibly a new big adventure to take its place, probably not another GS. A guy shouldn't have to put up with that BS on a $20,000. motorcycle.
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  4. roadtrip22

    roadtrip22 Been here awhile

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    that sounds like good news. is there anything that can be done like maybe thicker gear oil or just one of those things "it is what it is"?
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  5. JustKip

    JustKip Long timer

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    It's an "automotive style" dry clutch, and the rattle is nothing compared to Ducati!
    There's nothing wrong with it.
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  6. roadtrip22

    roadtrip22 Been here awhile

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    yea you would think if your going to spend a lot of money on a bike they would have a solution and fixes for all these little things. I guess that's BMW's way of making sure their dealers and parts stay in demand.
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  7. Mickey Chicken

    Mickey Chicken n00b

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    The rattle may be excacibated by the felt seal in the tunnel thro the tranny input shaft being worn.(this is not as bad as it sounds, it is a cheap wrap around piece of fuzzy felt!) This seal is primarily to prevent clutch fluid leaking thro the input shaft if your seals on the slave cylinder go but has a secondary damping ability because it wraps around the pushrod and sqaushes against the input shaft inner dia wall.
    If you can change gear ok, I would just live with it.

    I have just replaced a full clutch assy and slave cylinder and pushrod on a 2002 R1150r. 24,000 miles!
    It is a lot of work to do pulling of the tranny assy.
    Check forums because it may be possible to remove the slave cylinder then withdraw the pushrod from the rear of the input shaft with long nosed pliers fit a new pushrod and felt sel thro' the shaft fome then refit slave cylinder and jobs done! if I had not had to replace the clutch plates I could have done this on mine not sure about your model!

    One thing I would say with all oilheads/hexheads is that you must flush the clutch fluid every year it is a small volume and works hard! so goes black and deteriates very quickly and can affect the seals which is why I had to replace mine, I also did the whole clutch because some fluid had run thro and onto the plates.
    Once the slave cylinder seals go you have no gear changing ability whatsoever and you will be stranded!!
    a new slave cylinder is about £75 UK prices from Sherlocks.
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  8. RED CAT

    RED CAT Bumpy Backroader

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    Are you saying to replace the clutch rod too or just the felt pad on the rod. Not sure how this rod effects the rattle. Sounds too easy.
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  9. JohnTz

    JohnTz HP2 Rider

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    This noise is normal and is usually not the clutch but the transmission gears rattling when in neutral and the bike is idling. When is the last time you set the valves and did a throttle sync? A rough idle will make the sound even worse. I have seen this on countless bikes with various mileage ranging from brand new to 80K. Try this: get going to 10 miles an hour and then put it in neutral, let the clutch out and coast. You will not hear the rattle as the trans is spinning and the gears do not rattle. As soon as you stop moving listen again and you will hear the rattle. Or put your bike on the center stand and when in netrual with the clutch out spin the rear wheel (obviously be VERY careful!) and the rattle will go away when the rear wheel is moving.
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  10. bykemike

    bykemike "ready to navigate"

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    +1 John..not the clutch, for sure the transmission, they all do it and the tiniest hitch in the idle will make it worse.

    Exact thing happens with boat reverse gears. A small miss in the engine idle and it sounds like you are losing a gearbox or a clutch plate. I've seen guys pull down a perfectly good gear box because of a rocky idle.

    Like John says..load the drivetrain and the noise will go away.

    Mike
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  11. Mickey Chicken

    Mickey Chicken n00b

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    Yes, mainly because in pulling it out it damages the end wher the pliers have gripped. Also the pushrods wear a little on the tapered section that pushes on the diapraghm spring when you pull in the clutch. The felt seal can have an effect on the rattle because it grips round a recessed section on the pushrod and it is fatter than the pushrod which makes it a tight fit thro the centre of your gearbox input shaft, hence it can help prevent the rod rattling around. The rod is an inexpensive item £28.00 UK and the seal is a couple of pounds UK. also when you replace the pushrod put a 'little' Moly grease on both ends this will ease contact with slave and the diapraghm spring.
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  12. eric2

    eric2 ®egister this:

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    Just to set the record straight the GS models before the 1200gs use brake fluid in the clutch hydraulics so they require yearly flushing. After '05 they use hydraulic oil that is not hyrdoscopic so they do not need routine service. I think some 04-05 1150s may have hyrdaulic fluid too.

    The clutch rattle is normal, but if its rattling a lot after its warm then you could have worn input shaft splines. I did a lot of wheelies and power shifts that helped cause my splines to strip at 52k miles. When they get really worn you'll feel vibration when you pull the clutch in as the plate wobbles on the shaft, it will also rattle while coasting with the clutch disenagaged for the same reason. Now at 110k miles and no rattles once warm.

    I've heard of dealers charging an hour to inspect the splines using a boroscope through the starter mounting hole but dunno if that works.
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  13. RED CAT

    RED CAT Bumpy Backroader

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    All great info. Thanks. I am only comparing my 08 GS12(42,000mi) to all my buddies who have higher milage and much less noise. I know 6 people with GSs all quieter than mine. I use a TwinMax for the syncro and valves are perfect as is the end play. Clutch rod comes out very easily, no pliers required. Brought the whole tranny and clutch to a certified BMW Tech and he looked at splines and fiddled with it and didn't think there was anything wrong with it. Didn't take the tranny apart though. Said to get better ear plugs. I have ordered a ceramic clutch and preasure plates as he said there were signs of overheating but not bad. Probably at Yellowstone Park last year. Never again. Funny when the bike is cold I don't hear the rattle only when hot. I put it on the centerstand and run it in 1st gear the noise seems to go away. Haven't tried shifting to neutral and coasting. Another buddy has an 08 GS12 which is 2 serial numbers from mine, in other words 2 bikes from mine on the assembley line and his is almost as noisey as mine. I have had another GS owner take mine for a spin 2 weeks ago and he said it was very noticable, so its not just me.
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  14. Dark Helmet

    Dark Helmet Been here awhile

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    John, this brings up a related question, which you may have answered. My clutch rattles at stops when in neutral with the clutch out. My 1100 did this and I know they all do that. However, a friend recently rode my 1200 GSA and he commented "sounds like a bunch of marbles rattling around in your tranny when I coast with the clutch in". I listened and he was right, but I believe that sound has been there since I bought the bike (with 12k miles, now at 28k). When I rode his 2005 1200 GS it did not make these sounds and his clutch didn't rattle. Mine doesn't make the noise when coasting in neutral. I haven't been too worried as I change the tranny fluid frequently and don't notice any discoloration or flakes, but it has got me wondering. So you are saying that the noise I am hearing is just the gears rattling?Thanks for any thoughts.
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  15. JohnTz

    JohnTz HP2 Rider

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    If you hear noise with the clutch in (disengaged) then it is something else. Whe the clutch is out (engaged) it spins the trans input shaft and the idle pulses rattle the stationary gears since the bike is not moving at a stop and the gears are not moving as well. When the clutch is pulled in (disengaged) then the clutch seperates from the trans and the strans is stationary and no noise should be heard rolling or stopped.
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  16. RED CAT

    RED CAT Bumpy Backroader

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    I am wasting my time replacing the clutch and preasure plate and should concentrate on the tranny. And if so, got any ideas as to who knows what they are doing should they disassemble it. Don't have too much faith in my Dealer here. Is there a place that specializes in BMW transmissions?
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  17. Dark Helmet

    Dark Helmet Been here awhile

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    Thanks John. Definitely stops while rolling and clutch engaged in neutral, but when disengaged, it makes noise. Had the splines looked at in the last 10k when I had an input shaft seal go bad, and had a new FD installed recently as well. Would think if it was tranny I would be experiencing some sort of problems. Unless it is on the tranny output side/shaft. I notice that there is a bit of lash in the shaft when rolling on or off the throttle in first and second gear. Hmmm.
    #17
  18. Mickey Chicken

    Mickey Chicken n00b

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    The only splines they could see would be the short length sticking out of the friction plate. Not helpful as they are not driving anything the only splines driving are the ones inside the friction plate spline drive. Driven normally and I would say wheelying is a tad extremeI but I admire anyone who can do them! your splines will last a long time. I expected to see damaged splines when I took of my tanny but they were perfect, there are so many horror stories about splines.and a lot of tosh spoken about misalignment of trannys etc. You cannot misalign a tranny they are fitted by two dowel locations at 10 o clock and 5 oclock positions on the clutch housing and the clutch once disengaged free floats and self aligns. My advice to anyone of reasonable mechanical capability is If you are worried about the tranny or clutch and bike is layed up for winter then allow plenty of time and get a BMW mottorad cd manual and a Clymer or Haynes and strip the thing apart.take plenty of photos for wiring and cable layout layout and sytematically dismantle it. I took 2 days to strip and 3 leasurly days to reassemble, cleaning everything as I went.
    I would say to anyone if the bike rides well then do not worry about anything.
    #18
  19. eric2

    eric2 ®egister this:

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    tranny misalignment can happen if the bell housing is warped due to improper shipping or an accident. more likely is something like glue, sealant, etc between the tranny and engine block. The old k75 models had a lot of problems
    in this area. Oh, and you won't see any flakes or metal shavings in the tranny fluid if their worn, those parts are outside of the tranny
    #19
  20. roadtrip22

    roadtrip22 Been here awhile

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    a lot of good stuff here thanks for every ones responses.
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