Coolant in Crankcase - LC4

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by BadTA, Mar 30, 2013.

  1. BadTA

    BadTA Adventurer

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    I have a 2004 KTM 625 SXC.

    I recently discovered coolant in my crankcase (~18oz). So, I replaced the water pump seal as I assumed it was either that (which seems common) or something bigger. After the seal replacement, I still have coolant in the crankcase.

    I admit, I may have bent the seal or something, but assuming I didn't, what else could I check before cylinder head or something major like that?

    Also, would it be worth it to just order an entire new water pump?

    Thanks!
    #1
  2. Droptarotter

    Droptarotter Long timer

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    Are you losing coolant now?

    If not, you might have to change the oil a couple of times to flush all the coolant/contaminated oil out of the engine.

    I would not bother ordering a new water pump, unless you want a spare sitting on the shelf........if you do order one, that would probably guarantee you would not need to use it!:D

    I would just replace any worn parts in the original. Did you have a good look at the shaft as the seal can wear a groove in the shaft?

    Other problems could be head gasket/cracked head.

    Cheers
    #2
  3. Seikkailu_R

    Seikkailu_R Been here awhile

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    Is coolant really on crankcase, or in clutch/transmission side?

    Is there any coolant on top of piston?
    #3
  4. chasbo

    chasbo Long timer

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    How many miles on engine? I would suspect the shaft has a groove worn in it as well.
    #4
  5. BadTA

    BadTA Adventurer

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    There is 90.6 hours (3800 miles) on the motor.

    I am sure I am losing coolant and I am certain of where it is going. After replacing the water pump seal, I drained and replaced the oil. Rode it for about 10-15 minutes let it sit overnight. When I drained the oil, that's when about 18oz. of coolant came out of the crankcase. It was pure coolant. Looked like it did when I first put it in the radiator.

    I have had the bike on dialysis for the past hour. Drain oil, Top off oil, run the bike for a few minutes, repeat. I have done this about 5 times and the oil still comes out milky. Also, for about 3 of the flushes, the radiators have been drained and removed.

    I am worried that so much coolant came out. Honestly, I think I may have botched the pump seal replacement somehow. I have never had THAT much coolant in the oil.
    #5
  6. bmwktmbill

    bmwktmbill Traveler

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    Three possibilities if I am correct.

    Waterpump seal.
    Cracked head.
    Head gasket...but it goes you have coolant in the exhaust as well.

    So maybe only two possibilities?

    Do you have the facilities to do a leakdown test of sorts.

    If you pull the head it's fairly easy to test that.

    http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=723042&highlight=coolant

    If you end up pulling the head be sure to run the piston to BDC to check the bore for evidence of broken rings.


    bill
    #6
  7. BadTA

    BadTA Adventurer

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    Well, the bike is at the shop. I should know more by tomorrow.

    Thanks everyone for your help!
    #7
  8. BadTA

    BadTA Adventurer

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    UPDATE: There is definitely something bad going on.

    Good News: The water pump is no longer a problem.
    Bad News: Topping off the radiators and starting the bike (cold) with the radiator cap off produces a 2 foot fountain of coolant. :(

    A little bit more background:
    About a year ago, the decompression shaft came loose and did some major damage to the cylinder head. I replaced the cylinder head and the valve cover including all new valvetrain, cam shaft, etc. Mid way through the rebuild, I ended up moving to a new house and did my best to bag/label, box up all the parts. Once I went back to work on it, I noticed the steel washer for the upper timing gear was missin. I chalked it up to 'lost in the move'. Got the bike back together and went for a spin. During the ride the missing washer returned. It was in the crankcase and had worked its way into the lower part of the timing chain/gear and caused a lot of damage to surrounding components (including clutch, counterbalance, timing gear/chain, etc.).

    Since then, I have replaced EVERYTHING in the left side of the case. All gears, timing chain, seals, etc.

    I know I probably should have mentioned all this first, but I am not sure what to do now. The shop says that it might still be just a head gasket, but they are recommending an entire rebuild of the motor. $$$$

    At this point, I am looking for more opinions on my next step. Could it be head gasket, crack in the case or cylinder head or something else? Should I spend the money and just let them rebuild the thing ($1500-2100), order a complete gasket set and tackle this myself or use this as an excuse to get a 690R enduro?

    Thank you in advance!
    #8
  9. Seikkailu_R

    Seikkailu_R Been here awhile

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    Head gasket or cracked head.
    Anyway, start with head removal.

    Anything below cylinder dosnt have anything to do with coolant, not even cylinder base gasket.

    And if pump is ok, there arent too many options left...
    #9
  10. BadTA

    BadTA Adventurer

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    How do I check for a cracked head?
    #10
  11. Seikkailu_R

    Seikkailu_R Been here awhile

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    Visual check, dye penetrant, pressure test or let the machine shop do it for you?

    But first check that head gasket.
    #11
  12. BadTA

    BadTA Adventurer

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    Another thing I would like to mention, the crankcase was drained and filled to the lower hash on the sight glass. The radiators were then filled. The bike was left on a stand overnight. The next day the coolant found its way into the crankcase. All this while the was cold and never started.
    #12
  13. Seikkailu_R

    Seikkailu_R Been here awhile

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    Dosnt sound like a crack on head, more like a piece of head gasket missing totally.
    #13
  14. BadTA

    BadTA Adventurer

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    Well that sounds a little more positive. I am going to pick the bike up tomorrow. I will begin tear down shortly after.

    Now, should I tear the motor completely apart and replace bearings and such? The shop is recommending this because of all the aluminium shavings from the original damage. He says no matter how many times (or frequently) I change the oil/filters there will still be shavings floating around the motor and damaging bearings.
    #14
  15. bmwktmbill

    bmwktmbill Traveler

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  16. BadTA

    BadTA Adventurer

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    Fun story. LOL.

    I"m glad to hear it had a happy ending. I'm hoping for the same. I just don't want to tear the motor completely apart if I don't have to. I also don't want to go through a bunch of effort and then have a bearing fail and have to tear it all down again.

    I just want to get back in the saddle again. It's been over a year since the initial downtime. :(
    #16
  17. BadTA

    BadTA Adventurer

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    So....Head Gasket? Maybe?

    [​IMG]
    #17
  18. bmwktmbill

    bmwktmbill Traveler

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    I dont see where it failed.

    bill
    #18
  19. BadTA

    BadTA Adventurer

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    Haha!

    So, seriously, do I worry about the aluminum shavings? I am considering splitting the case.
    #19
  20. bmwktmbill

    bmwktmbill Traveler

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    I am serious, where did it fail?
    I don't see the failure point, the gasket is intact.
    Forget the rest of the engine, get the head tested first.

    Check the cylinder bore by lowereing the piston, take a couple of pics.
    Relax as in one thing at a time.

    bill
    #20