Countersteering confusion : (

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by IrishJohn, Dec 30, 2012.

  1. sloweddy

    sloweddy Tree Hugger

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  2. Klay

    Klay dreaming adventurer

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    right here on my thermarest

    Of course.
  3. Klay

    Klay dreaming adventurer

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    right here on my thermarest

    http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~fajans/pub/pdffiles/SteerBikeAJP.PDF
  4. bonox

    bonox Tryin Hard

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    if the rider leans out of the turn enough, then you don't counter steer, you just steer.

    that is, if you can keep the bike vertical (on a flat road), then you'll never need to countersteer it.

    This after all is the principal of the hack, which 'steers' and does not 'countersteer'. If you use your weight to provide the same reaction as the third wheel, then countersteering doesn't work.

    This balancing, imo, is why you can change the steering of a bike at low speed betweeen 'steer' and 'countersteer'. At higher speeds (or lower ones with very tight turn radii), your weight and lever arm aren't enough to balance the bike, so it must always countersteer.
  5. DAKEZ

    DAKEZ Long timer

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  6. rbrsddn

    rbrsddn 3banger

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    I was going to say something, but it's all so confusing! ( Unless you just go out and ride, then even the Anti Albert Einstein will figure it out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!):deal
  7. bonox

    bonox Tryin Hard

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    yeah, I know i'm an arsehole :D
  8. DAKEZ

    DAKEZ Long timer

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    If that be the case or no... I'd still buy you a beer. :beer
  9. Valker

    Valker Been here awhile

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    Bwaahaaahaahaa.... whew, thanks, this discussion needed that!:lol3
  10. Dolly Sod

    Dolly Sod Red Clay Halo

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    I really hate it when I have to take the bike back to the dealer because my countersteering is broken.
  11. Andyvh1959

    Andyvh1959 Cheesehead Klompen

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    Wow, 22 pages of discussion on countersteering!!??

    I have been teaching the MSF courses for over 20 years, and to a point I don't try to explain how countersteering works, because a large percentage of people including riders of many years either have no real idea, or cannot grasp the concept, or some claim its a bunch of BS (which it is NOT), or are so LOCKED in their brains to only think go left-STEER left, or right, that they have no chance to ever understand it.

    I can explain it, how it works, why it works. But it is far easier to coach people on how to do it and let them feel it for themselves. Once the "feel" of countersteering is developed, all the discussion and theoretical dicsussion is irrelevant for most riders.

    Years ago my orthopedic surgeon was a student in my MSF BRC, along with this son and daughter. Now, the man is a doctor, obviously intelligent, but yet he would NOT allow his brain to consider accepting push left-go left/push right-go right when it came to applying countersteering for lean initiation and motorcycle control. He couldn't do it even after I told him not to think about it, just do it and feel/learn the response of the bike. He failed the swerve portion of the training and evaluation and I failed him in the class. I later worked with him one to one and finally got him to feel and accept it did work. His son and daughter easily grasped the concept and passed the class easily. He later did get his license and has been riding for over eight years now.

    So, less theory, less discussion. Just DO it and learn from it. It works whenever you need to initiate a lean or change a lean angle (like mid-turn). I have found it still works for dirt riding, and even applies for ice racing.
  12. pretbek

    pretbek Long timer

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    Yeah, but only over 22 mph.






















    :hide
  13. Al Goodwin

    Al Goodwin Long timer

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    GEEZ LOUISE......just go for a RIDE PEOPLE.....

    It's NOT rocket science.

    Go riding, think about while you're doing it. That'll answer ALL the questions and confusion.
  14. DAKEZ

    DAKEZ Long timer

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    ... Well, there you have it. Just ingore that the NUMER ONE single vehicle acctident is blowing a corner because you don't know what to do and your heart starts racing when you THINK you are going too fast to get around the bend.

    When you crash... When you get injured or killed it was all because motorcycle riding just wasn't for you.

    It had NOTHING to do with the fact that you ignored the Push Left Go Left/Push Righ Go Right/ Look through the turn, LOOK THROUGH THE TURN, LOOK THROUGH THE TURN!

    You trusted in cousin Jimmy's method of "All that counter steering stuff is just a bunch of HOGWASH! Just Lean into the turn"

    Then you target fixated on the guard-rail or ditch or rock or truck.... Your aim was true. :thumb:fall:kurt

    Ride Safe Ride Well Ride Often

    See you on the side of the road. :ricky
  15. farmerstu

    farmerstu Been here awhile

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  16. DAKEZ

    DAKEZ Long timer

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  17. Al Goodwin

    Al Goodwin Long timer

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    :huh......OH brother!!!!!

    I didn't say go out and ride like a bloomin IDIOT:eek1.

    Go find an empty backroad, take it slow and easy, swerve back and forth, notice what your steering is doing while you're swerving. Go into and out of some corners aggressively. change lines while IN a corner, turn tighter, come out early...PAY attention to what's going on.

    THere....GO FOR A RIDE, everyone should be able to notice what's going on and WHY!!!!:freaky

  18. DAKEZ

    DAKEZ Long timer

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    My post wasn't aimed directly at you. Your post was just a spring board. :D

    The "just go ride" way must not be the answer either as not all people are figuring it out.
  19. IrishJohn

    IrishJohn Adventurer

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    Thank you for this, and thanks to all for commenting. My apologies for not responding earlier - was out of the country for five weeks with little internet access. I finally 'cracked' the countersteering concept - it might sound stupid but while walking I suddenly realised how 'body lean' does not EFFECT direction but is an AFFECT of it - might sound stupid but it opened the door for me. Also - I think a lot of my confusion started with not understanding you only countersteer to INITIATE the turn - the Instructor made it sound like something out of a dirt bike race thing with the rear wheel almost at ninety degrees to the front wheel....Thanks again for all the contributions, it really has helped me relax on my bike. I was able to really relax on my ride today for the first time :1drink
  20. Salzig

    Salzig Been here awhile

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    Changing direction during a wheelie, does it involve countersteering? :amazon



    :d