Countersteering confusion : (

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by IrishJohn, Dec 30, 2012.

  1. Coachgeo

    Coachgeo Diesel Adventurer

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2009
    Oddometer:
    519
    Location:
    NOW: Dayton OH area recent past WAS: North TX
    Thanks for that. When you get a chance do this in a situation (in a local neighborhood?) where you don't have to straighten the bike back up so soon. Yes its the same thing but will be much more clear when having to countersteer then hold thru the turn longer before straightening out.

    Would be interesting to see as some reported in a previous post that on video it seemed counter steer didnt show well. Not sure why they felt that way
  2. Coachgeo

    Coachgeo Diesel Adventurer

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2009
    Oddometer:
    519
    Location:
    NOW: Dayton OH area recent past WAS: North TX
    again though; for a newbie.......... half to quarter? of the folk might read that statement as opposite of what your intending. AKA they interpret push left as "push with left arm" and not as "push the handle bars toward the left" That's now all Ive been trying to get across. When I first read it ........... I read it as push with left arm......... which would be a right counter steer.

    A teaching/learning tool "saying" needs to have a higher rate of being interpreted correctly than what "push left", "push right" does

    I'll try an experiment to see how many do which. Feel free to do the same. Experiment set up is easy. Put a pen on a table and stand/sit a person behind it and place first finger of each hand on the table with their fingertip at each side/end of pen. Just tell them follow my instructions. then say "push left" and see how many folk push the pen leftward (push right finger tip upward rotating pen to the left) and how many push with their left finger (rotating the pen to the right) Would be interesting to know also how many first ask for clarification which you mean (push leftward or push with left finger) so note that too. If they ask for clarity just tell them to "guess which you meant" and record what they do.
  3. Coachgeo

    Coachgeo Diesel Adventurer

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2009
    Oddometer:
    519
    Location:
    NOW: Dayton OH area recent past WAS: North TX
    ok so far to my surprise no one has rotated the pen leftward. so far one asked for clarity in which I meant and 100% have pushed with left rotating pen to the right. Still a very small (less than a dozen) tested though.

    must admit though I did add more information that I originally suggested. Did say the topic of the test was about turning/steering a motorcycle.
  4. PhilB

    PhilB Long timer

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Oddometer:
    1,331
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    It DOES mean push with left arm. To go left, you push the left handlebar, turning the wheel to the right -- that's why it's called "countersteering".

    PhilB
  5. orangebear

    orangebear Long timer

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Oddometer:
    1,307
    Location:
    dumfrie scotland
    I was told to push down on the left bar and the bike will go left and push down onn the right bar and the bike will go right.
  6. KX50002

    KX50002 NooB, my ass

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Oddometer:
    1,855
    Location:
    NEPA
    Works for me. I don't see the confusion, except when some people try to make it seem as if there is some "mystery" involved.

    I think it comes down to some new riders don't have it as an instinct and when needed they "turn" the wrong way and hit the thing they intend to escape.

    I've been riding motorcycles for a long time (Thanks DAD) it requires no thought- it's like an instinctual response to me.
  7. Coachgeo

    Coachgeo Diesel Adventurer

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2009
    Oddometer:
    519
    Location:
    NOW: Dayton OH area recent past WAS: North TX
    yes when that is the first phase of the turn looking at it that way it is correct......... but many in here seem to be arguing differently saying push left means push the bike leftward by steering leftward (right arm push) out of one side of their mouth yet admitting counter steer must occur. So the line of "push left or right" creates just as much confusion as the concept of counter steer. Thus the notion it may be better to say as mentioned previously

    For all turns

    LOOK into it, counter out, steer in , look in, look in, look in...

    or shorter
    Look in, counter, steer in, look look look

    maybe better

    Look into, Counter out, steer thru

    These identify the counter steer, and identifies the changes (or not) in handlebar pressure to maintain the turn.
  8. pretbek

    pretbek Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2008
    Oddometer:
    1,195
    Location:
    SE Pennsylvania

    Add "with".
    Say "push with left, go left", when explaining countersteering.

    And I apologize that -with this very minor addition- I just blew hours and hours of your carefully constructed confusion, nitpicking, misinterpretation and potential testing. My bad. I tend towards solutions, not the ancient oriental religious tradition of endlessly discussing for discussion's sake only.
  9. DAKEZ

    DAKEZ Long timer

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2007
    Oddometer:
    19,747
    Location:
    OR
    YOU are the only one having trouble.

    STOP CONFUSING THE n00bs with your idiotic way of making this complicated! :deal

    Look Left... PUSH LEFT. = go left
    Look Right... PUSH RIGHT = Go right.

    Look through the turn, LOOK THROUGH THE TURN, LOOK THROUGH THE TURN!!!
  10. farmerstu

    farmerstu Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Oddometer:
    535
    Location:
    Minnesota west central
    i'm a puller more than a pusher. good exercise is to use left hand on right grip thru some sweepers. (yes i know it's going to slow reaction time on a emergency brake) i often do this when my wife is leading in a curvy section of road, she prefers to ride a little slower and it keeps me entertained. and i feel it sharpens skills. in general riding with one hand and forcing quick swerves builds good muscle memory.
  11. Coachgeo

    Coachgeo Diesel Adventurer

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2009
    Oddometer:
    519
    Location:
    NOW: Dayton OH area recent past WAS: North TX
    Hey if it works for you and those you help out then... go for it. I'll stick with what 35+ years of teaching human movement seems to work for me and all will be well.
  12. Coachgeo

    Coachgeo Diesel Adventurer

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2009
    Oddometer:
    519
    Location:
    NOW: Dayton OH area recent past WAS: North TX
    good stuff. Again notes that the "push left or right" wording is too vague

    oh well. Ride on
  13. KX50002

    KX50002 NooB, my ass

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Oddometer:
    1,855
    Location:
    NEPA
  14. DAKEZ

    DAKEZ Long timer

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2007
    Oddometer:
    19,747
    Location:
    OR
    Run with that. :loco

  15. FlySniper

    FlySniper Bleh...

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,664
    Location:
    Here
    :rofl:rofl:roflHoly shit!:rofl:rofl:rofl



    will you guys just get on yer fookin' bikes and ride?

    You do own a bike, right?

    Bump. Oh hell yes! I does work!.... That's it, you figured it out that fast.

    There's nothing wrong with asking about something you don't understand, but this is dead simple in practice. Try it one time and you'll understand it forever.
  16. Lion BR

    Lion BR I'd rather be riding

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2005
    Oddometer:
    4,409
    Location:
    Oregon
    This is the best one so far.
  17. pretbek

    pretbek Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2008
    Oddometer:
    1,195
    Location:
    SE Pennsylvania
    Hell no it ain't. That is clear and succinct, practical too. Where is the confusion?
  18. ErikDK

    ErikDK Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2012
    Oddometer:
    208
    Are you listening DAKEZ?

    Push WITH left go left.
    Push WITH left go left.
    Push WITH left go left.
    Push WITH left go left.


    For me it works this way:

    I need to push the bikes azz out to turn, and the only thing to hold on to is the handlebar.

    Any child who has ever been in a carrousel knows how it works.

    [​IMG]
  19. Dolly Sod

    Dolly Sod Red Clay Halo

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2003
    Oddometer:
    14,071
    Location:
    Richmond, Va

    For me it works like this. I counter steer to the lean the bike.

    If you need a mnemonic device "like push left to go left", you're still a noob. :deal

    and if you feel the need to nitpick to add "with", you're an anal retentive bore.
  20. ErikDK

    ErikDK Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2012
    Oddometer:
    208
    I don't need any mnemonic device, since the carousel is in my muscle memory since age 5.

    "Push left" is ambiguous, "push with left" is unambiguous.

    If Dakez' message doesn't come through the first time, shouting it out louder doesn't help, it needs rephrasing within itself, not in the foot notes.