Crash Response Protocols

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by ABHooligan, Dec 22, 2009.

  1. ABHooligan

    ABHooligan The Flying Mythos

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    Hey folks,
    This is a serious question, so I'd like to keep this to real knowledge and experience, rather than armchair speculation and "I heard..."

    I've recently been party to two seperate crashes (run of bad luck, I guess). The first time I "had to lay er down" to avoid a crash. This hurt like hell, glad I didn't crash:rofl. The second, my riding buddy/girlfriend crashed behind me, off the edge of the pavement. One trip to the hospital, one ambulance ride, but no serious injuries, either time.

    If you're with someone who crashes, or come upon a crash, what's proper procedure here? Calling 911 is an obvious step, but until real help arrives, what do or not do? (Disclaimer: you're not liable for your advice here):deal
    #1
  2. Crisis management

    Crisis management Latte riders FTW!

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    Do a first aid course, apply that knowledge at the scene.






    If that doesn't turn your crank, stand around, have a smoke, chat, tweet to the world, video the scene for Youtube, post up in Faceplant....the usual stuff. :evil
    #2
  3. Y E T I

    Y E T I Unpossible

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    The first thing is to secure the scene to make sure no one else gets hurt. Do whatever you can to prevent others, including yourself, from getting hurt. Dead/injured people are of no use at an accident scene.

    Park your bike OFF the road. Get other passerbys to warn oncoming traffic, etc.

    Then call 911 and keep the injured person calm, still and awake. Chances are that without proper training anything else you do will only make things worse.

    That's the gist of what they taught us in a recent first responders class I took.
    #3
  4. DAKEZ

    DAKEZ Long timer

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    +1 First make it safe.
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  5. Silver

    Silver Dirtnewb

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    Taken from a different board where that guy got it from another board where it was probably copied from some other board. Who knows. Some good info though.

    #5
  6. hensons

    hensons Been here awhile

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    Take a first aid and CPR course. <object classid="clsid: D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000" codebase="http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=9,0,0,0" width="16" height="16" id="movie" align=""><param name="movie" value="http://forumsmiles.com/content/5/mov.swf"><param name="bgcolor" value="#ffffff"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" /><embed allowScriptAccess="always" src="http://forumsmiles.com/content/5/mov.swf" quality="high" bgcolor="#ffffff" width="16" height="16" name="movie" align="" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer"</embed></object>
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  7. Crisis management

    Crisis management Latte riders FTW!

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    Correct, some good info but absolutely useless unless you are trained to apply it, how many of you can find the pulse of a healthy person let alone the thready, irregular beat of someone in shock....are you going to apply CPR to someone who has a heart beat?

    I have two reasons for suggesting a first aid course:
    1. You get trained in how to apply first aid.
    2. You get to know what the law and acceptable practice is in your area which could save your arse later on.

    I'm all for people helping but it's amazing what a burst of adrenaline and no knowledge can do, correctly diagnosing what is needed and applying the correct technique is more important. I'm not suggesting you don't try, I am suggesting you learn what to do first and reading a page off the net is not the best way.
    One thing you will need to be prepared for is the fact that sometimes there is nothing you can do. If they havent been breathing for 5 minutes, have had a femoral bleed or internal bleeding and the ambulance is not there NOW then you may well be simply comforting the bystanders.

    Do a first aid course........please.
    #7
  8. Jamie Z

    Jamie Z Long timer

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    One thing I've personally seen and read about numerous times here is the nearly uncontrollable urge to pick up the bike immediately after a crash or even a low-speed drop.

    I think it's become my pet project to discourage this.

    Almost always when your bike goes down, it's an adrenaline-producing incident. Running to pick up the bike right away, even if you're just a witness puts yourself at risk for injury.

    The bike isn't going to get any more damaged by laying on its side for a couple more minutes. Wait a second, calm down, attend to anyone who might be injured, get a few pics, and then pick up the bike.

    Jamie
    #8
  9. Snowbird

    Snowbird Cereal Killer

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    Of course, you would not want everyone to "ride through" if bodies and bikes are scattered or if the accident is due to something spilled on the roadway.

    Just goes to show one-size-fits-all fits few.
    #9
  10. ragtoplvr

    ragtoplvr Long timer

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    I might add 2 things thing.

    1. Turn off the key on the downed bike, less chance of fire. It's probably totaled anyway, so why pick it up. There is time for that later.

    2. If no one has stopped to direct traffic, I always put my helmet in the road far enough away from the wreck that hopefully after some clueless cage hits the helmet they will stop before they hit the downed rider. I figure at least I will hear the helmet crushing and have time to run before they hit.

    If no one is behind me, I will stop the bike and use it with the emergency flashers on as a barrier.

    If I lose a helmet or bike in these cases, it served it's function well.


    Rod
    #10
  11. Reverse

    Reverse Armchair Tough

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    I did this course a few years ago: Accident Scene Management

    Definitely helpful in securing the accident site etc. Not really a first aid course. You are taught things like how to take a helmet off as safely as possible (only as a last resort if absolutely necessary) for instance. If nothing else, it helps you stay calm at the site of an accident...

    I would recommend it.
    #11
  12. GSWayne

    GSWayne Old Guy nOOb

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    I'm signed up for it next month, I'll post a review afterwords. For the 1st aid portion of the equation, the Wilderness First Responder course is a good one for motorcycle travel, especially in remote areas.
    #12
  13. Nightrunner

    Nightrunner Long timer

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    +2. Excellent courses. I took both the basic and intermediate. They do get a bit more into first aid in the int course.
    #13
  14. Nightrunner

    Nightrunner Long timer

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    I have to disagree. If you are the rider then yes wait a few minutes to get over the shock of going down. Don't want to make any injuries worse. But most downed bikes leak gas and should be at least stood up if reasonably possible. Also, circumstances vary. If you're out in the woods, then again fire hazard is something to take very seriously. In town with heavy traffic then maybe best to stay out of the road.
    #14
  15. Oilybimmer

    Oilybimmer Long timer

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    I have been a first aid practitioner for over 30 years, it is well worthwhile but will not prepare you for a real accident scene, this year I took part in this scheme
    which was very useful.
    Stewart
    http://www.fbos.co.uk/firstbikeonscene.asp
    #15
  16. FakeName

    FakeName Wile E Coyote SuperGenius

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    So far, I agree with nearly everything covered here. Just to add something from my personal experience- always, if possible, tell TWO people to call for help. I was once helping a non-breathing swimmer and looked up to see the person I had sent to call 911 standing and watching. I said- "they are on the way, right? Will you meet them outside?"

    "Um- no he says, I couldn't get a signal so I gave up". :eek1

    Send two people, hopefully one of them will be smarter than that guy. Point to their faces, look them in the eyes, and say YOU and YOU both go call for help.

    And if it's me lying on the ground, please ask 3 or 4. Thank you.
    #16
  17. Wreckchecker

    Wreckchecker Ungeneer to broked stuff.

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    That's why in scene management, you learn to delegate specific tasks and if possible to delegate people in sets. Your eyeballs to their eyeballs. The two will keep each other on task.

    There's been a lot of good stuff on this thread, and sending people up/down the road to stop/warn traffic is a great start in securing the scene. One item I have a problem with is that if you're near the head of a group ride and come across a scene or one of the 1st riders goes down, I'll clue you that you WON'T be able to get the ride past. Somebody's going to stop to be the good samaritan, and then everybody behind that'll stop. If possible, there's nothing wrong with getting them off the road in an organized fashion just before the scene and then getting out your traffic stoppers, your 911 callers, etc.

    But the one thing I learned early on is to put it in perspective for the folks standing around, whose brains are frantically trying to think what to do. If you don't give them focus, they can do some really stupid/crazy stuff!!! As I come up to people to delegate, unless they heard me just say this, I'll frequently start by saying "The accident is over. To make things right, the next thing we need to do is..." It's also an extremely soothing and focusing phrase that helps victims come to terms and cooperate, rather than scream. Of course, by having taken a responder course, you're hopefully thinking what the next 2-3 steps are, because as soon as you start delegating, you own the scene, for better or worse.

    One other thing. We as people WANT to do something. We WANT to nurture and help and soothe. Reposition them or get them out of the broken car. But the reality is that it's usually best to check your ABC's and if possible just keep the victim quiet and awake where he/she is until the pros arrive.

    Checks
    #17
  18. crinklesmith

    crinklesmith Hater of Humanity

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    I agree with most everything here, and that's a great quote Silver posted up too, the accident scene management writeup. I work for a local municipality's public works agency, and we do training for traffic and work related accidents (i.e. falling in the wood chipper, getting run over by a loader, etc.) annually.

    The number one issue that is brought up in training is to not use the victim as a first aid training dummy before EMS shows up. As far as motorcycle wrecks are concerned, the most likely injuries are going to be broken bones, dislocated joints, spinal or cerebral damage, organ damage, etc. Blunt trauma stuff, I guess. Really the only on scene first aid that can be done for these type of injuries are to treat for shock, and keep the person as calm and still as possible. I think that trying to pry helmets off, or attempting to move the victim is only going to cause more problems. Better to keep the victim calm, comfortable and still, and wait for EMS to bring the knowledge and equipment to safely and effectively treat the patient.

    In a group ride or urban area, I like the idea of assigning duties to other riders and bystanders. Have a couple people be responsible for securing the scene and directing traffic, one person on the phone with dispatch to direct EMS to the scene, and a couple people to document the scene with witness statements, or photographs, and also to get the insurance and registration paperwork in order for when the police invariably show up. I think the last point is sometimes overlooked, as everyone is invariably worried about the victims well being, and rightly so, but delegating a specific person or persons to get the legal stuff in order will make things much easier when the ambulance leaves, and everyone starts trying to sort things out. Of course, if your the only one there, scene security and first aid come first, in that order, but don't forget to take a few snapshots and collect the paperwork while the ambulance is being loaded up.
    #18
  19. ragtoplvr

    ragtoplvr Long timer

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    Most of us, myself included have egos.

    Our ego will recognize our beautiful much loved bike on it's side as a big gigantic flashing failure sign. We will literally die trying to turn that sign off.

    It is often this same ego that got us into the wreck in the first place.

    When we see our buddies bike on it's side, rather than help them, we let our feelings take over and pick his bike up, hiding his failure from the world.

    Once you know this about yourself, you need to tell yourself over and over that you will not do this (again).

    I hope no one ever has to find out if telling yourself over and over to leave the bike alone and lie there still will really work.

    I know in my first two relatively minor crashes, I had to pick the bike up as soon as I stopped rolling.

    Hopefully I will not have a third, I simply do not heal as well now.

    Rod
    #19
  20. Jamie Z

    Jamie Z Long timer

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    The technique I've used to keep myself from jumping up and picking up my bike is that I take a photo of my bike every time it goes down. True, I've missed a couple of times, but I've gotten most of them. You can see them here:

    http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2017635&id=1077184154&l=e2436318e5

    Now my first reaction is to jump up and find my camera. :D

    Jamie
    #20