Cruiser Scooters?

Discussion in 'Battle Scooters' started by btcn, Apr 2, 2012.

  1. vortexau

    vortexau Outside the Pod-bay

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    Cruiser Scooters? Something like these?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Unfortunately they are Chinese and single cylinder.
    Engine: Liquid cooled four-stroke single cylinder
    Displacement: 244cc


    The only V-twin powered Japanese Cruiser (with Auto tranny) of recent build that I know of, is this one:

    [​IMG]

    <table align="Left" border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1" width="580"><tbody><tr><td valign="top" width="25%">Displacement:</td><td>680.00 ccm (41.49 cubic inches)</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" width="25%">Engine type:</td><td>V2, four-stroke</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" width="25%">Engine details:</td><td>52 degree V-twin</td></tr></tbody></table>
    #21
  2. Photog

    Photog Charismatic Megafauna Administrator

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    You stole my post. :lol3 I was just looking up those two.

    I'd love to try out the Honda, just for grins. I'm sure more "automatic motorcycles" (versus traditional step-through designs) will be on the way. I'm not sure how many the US will see.
    #22
  3. perturbedmax

    perturbedmax Mr. n00b to you.

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  4. bbishoppcm

    bbishoppcm It ain't a moped.

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    Is that the DN-01? That's a pretty cool bike! Complicated transmission though...
    #24
  5. btcn

    btcn Long timer

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    I do see where your commin from. I think youse just had some bad experences, maybe a lot of the asshole poser type H-D guys in your area?

    Sounds like your local H-D dealers a shitty one too. My H-D dealer welcomes any type of bike. Hell, theres quite a few Metric Cruisers in there local rides, mostly Yamaha V-Stars and Road Stars. And there retarted not to want any buisness! Seriously. What, a scooterist buying there would drive away there main poser customers?:huh

    I know its hard not to get mad at them. Trust me I do to. But, they ain't worth the trouble. A lot of the types that do this are simply the posers. There just pretty boy yuppie wanna be bikers for the most part. Don't let them get to ya. It makes them feel tougher inside to insult other people's rides that ain't H-Ds. So be it, let them feel that way? Are they worth a fight?

    I say y'all can say whatever you want to me, see if I care. But, badmouth any of my kin, or those close to me, and I guarntee we's gonna have a problem.

    I too used to have anger issues. But now I just let things slide. If it gets physical thats different. But I don't ride my scooter to impress anybody, obvsiously! I LOVE Harley Davidson motorcycles though. They really are great machines, have a certain feel to them. And I love the sound, kinda similar to how we love the sound of an old carbed V8!

    Yes, not all H-D riders are bad. Just seems to be some guys that talk shit about others bikes. And your right there, its ALWAYS in groups. Trying to impress there buddies!

    But, any real biker would simply laugh and tell em to shut up!:deal

    If I was you I'd move, or simply try and not worry about them. While real hardcore bikers probably won't give you much respect for riding a scooter, they won't care. Too much effort. And as long as your on 2 wheels.

    Just control your anger. My anger issues was unrelated to this, but what I do is, right when I can feel myself getting extremely raged, I just think [yea its hard but try], is this worth it? Is it worth ending up in jail, or something I'll regreat? It works for me most of the time. Its hard, you just gotta learn to think like that when you feel it. Same applies on these forums, is it worth trying to argue with nobody? I mean a little bickering of course but anger and hate, I just let it slide.

    What
    #25
  6. btcn

    btcn Long timer

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    vortexau cool, but not what I had in mind. I reckon it counts as a cruiser scooter. But its still a single.

    perturbedmax neat, but not for me. Those are abit pricy. And they sound like more like a dirtbike not a V-Twin, with the singles. And there not automatic.

    bbishoppcm, now thats more what I was thinking of! That uses some sort of CVT, or is it a Dual Clutch as I seem to remember? I think thats as close as we's gonna get. It is a V-Twin, pretty much a cruiser [not the badass chromed out kind], but its pretty neat. A little expensive and bit but its cool. Seems not to popular though.
    #26
  7. vortexau

    vortexau Outside the Pod-bay

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    Speaking of the DN-01 transmission, no - not CVT or Dual-clutch. Honda called it HFT and its closer to what they used on their big quadbikes:

    Honda Launches the New DN-01 Large Sports Cruiser with Innovative Automatic Human-Friendly Transmission


    At constant cruising speeds it used a "lockup mechanism" to eliminate any automatic-type slippage.
    #27
  8. btcn

    btcn Long timer

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    Wow, thats really neat! I didn't know that. I wander why the DN-1 was overall a failure? Its somewhat comparable to a maxi scooter, but it gets most of the respect of a conventinal motorcycle.

    I think its just not scootery enough for scooter fellers, and not a "real" bike I reckon with the motorcycle folks?


    Funny thing is, it seems to me that any automatic trannsmission motorcycle is considered a chick bike,:huh Scooters are considered toys or "get a real motorcycle" manual or automatic.

    Its really sad. Seriously. Those guys probably ain't ridden a nice automatic bike before. On twisties and hills, I love the auto WAY more. Its just a lot funner. For 2 up its better, no worries about keeping the engine RPMs high enough or lugging the motor.

    But I like manuals too, both are cool. I just don't quite see why its such a big deal to have a automatic bike. At them there ridly motorcycle demonstrations, a lot of the hardcore Harley types was having a blast on the Ridly 750 autos! Those was great, just WAY to $.


    As for scooters. I'd just like to see an actual mass produced one with a V-Twin. IMO, V-Twins sound neat with a CVT.

    But what I find, is that CVTs make the bike feel a lot more torquey. I think its cause it always hits the right ratio. My Elite 150 feels torquey for a 150 cc. When I's rode 125 cc motorcycles, like the Eliminator 125, they way more gutless.
    #28
  9. CaseyJones

    CaseyJones Ridin' that train

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    You got that right. Compare a machine like a Burgman 400 to an under-500cc bike...the Burgman wins, hands down. Faster top speed, the same acceleration, storage... smoother...and tradeoffs in handling aren't noticeable in everyday riding.

    I just had a nice day out with my Burgman clone with 295cc's...a higher top speed than my TU250 had; felt peppier. And, 70 mpg. I love my oilhead boxer; but this economy and ease of operation and practicality, can't be beat for short trips.
    #29
  10. vortexau

    vortexau Outside the Pod-bay

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    Most put that down to High Price.
    Why I did not buy one was because luggage storage was going to be (unlike with scooters) extra cost panniers & topbox, and there was no weather protection at all (unlike with scooters).

    Like the Gilera GP800 and the Aprilia SRV850?

    [​IMG]

    Aprilia SRV850 Confirmed for US

    [​IMG]
    Aprillia mana 850 engine (displacement of 839.3 cc) which the SRV850 will also use


    [FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=+3]2012 Aprilia SRV 850[/SIZE][/FONT]


    #30
  11. btcn

    btcn Long timer

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    Now thats getting warmer!:deal Wow, its confirmed for the US? Wasn't aware of that! Nice! But I know it'll be way expansive.

    Man, I done looked at them there ridely auto motorcycles. And they's SWEET!

    Says they only run 3,600 RPM at 85 MPH!:evil Thats super low for a 750 cc!
    #31
  12. vortexau

    vortexau Outside the Pod-bay

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    Did some looking around on the web and that "3,600 RPM at 85 MPH" statement may just be because a modified industrial engine may not be capable of revving any higher.

    2 Wheel Ventures acquires assets from Ridley Motorcycle Company (Feb26 2010)

    From another site I read:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Briggs and Stratton Vanguard Engine


    #32
  13. btcn

    btcn Long timer

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    WTF? They use a brigs engine in them?:huh I thought that engine looked suspiciously like one from the right side.

    I do believe your right. It probably ain't capable of revving no higher. Those engines like very low RPMs, almost like a diesel.

    That engine is essintially a riding lawnmower engine. Only 20 HP? Thats not much at all. Ridely surly modified it, but it still probably quite underpowered. Although with the CVT it seems to work fine as far as power.

    I'm actually suprised that thing will do 85 MPH. I further read that seems to be the maximum speed of these

    Further researching I discovered in stock form, the Ridely's run from about 25HP-33 HP, some a little more. Thats not much at all for a cruiser. But I reckon enough. [Although some models can get 40 HP].

    I think they should have designed there own engine though. Or, maybe worked with Harley use like a modified for CVT 883 Sportty engine, that'd be neat. Something like that.

    Perhaps with that engine they should have been MUCH cheaper. Those engines can be had for around $1K from smallengineswarehouse. Add $1K to make it work well for the bike/mods. Then the CVT and bike. Should have sold for more like $6K. $20K or so no way would many buy them, just get a Sportster for 1/2 that and deal with shifting.

    Although I do imagine that engine worked well with a CVT, since that hi geared CVT can keep the RPMs nice and steady, which these workhorse industrial engines like. Just to much $ IMO. And they kinda got labeled as a chick bike. The hardcore H-D guys most of em that tested em love em. But that image of a chick bike probably interfiered.

    Its ridiclous how bikes easily get labeled as chick bikes. Seriously. Some idiots call the Sportster a chick bike!:huh How do you explain all the hardcore 1%ers riding them for years, and many still do? IMO it don't get much more macho than a 74 Ironhead Sportster complete with a flame paintjob, chopped, apes, and straight pipes.
    #33
  14. vortexau

    vortexau Outside the Pod-bay

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    Want to get some idea of what a Automatic V-Twin motorcycle should be capable of, regarding Top Speed and Engine H.P.? Lets go back Thirty-Six years and remember times have moved on. This one is air-cooled, has a pair of 36mm Dell'Orto VHB Carburetors, does the standing quarter mile in 15.9 sec.

    The 2-Speed Auto Tranny is not that efficient, and makes heavy use of its Torque Converter :

    [​IMG]


    Moto Guzzi V-1000 I-Convert with 2-speed automatic gearbox.

    <table align="Left" border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1" width="580"><tbody><tr><td valign="top" width="25%">Displacement:</td><td>948.00 ccm (57.85 cubic inches)</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" width="25%">Engine type:</td><td>V2, four-stroke</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" width="25%">Power:</td><td>61.00 HP (44.5 kW)) @ 6500 RPM</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" width="25%">Top speed:</td><td>168.0 km/h (104.4 mph)</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" width="25%">Compression:</td><td>9.2:1</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" width="25%">Bore x stroke:</td><td>88.0 x 78.0 mm (3.5 x 3.1 inches)</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" width="25%">Valves per cylinder:</td><td>2</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" width="25%">Fuel control:</td><td>OHV</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" width="25%">Cooling system:</td><td>Air</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" width="25%">Gearbox:</td><td>2-speed automatic</td></tr></tbody></table>
    #34
  15. btcn

    btcn Long timer

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    That is actually quite similar to my 78 Honda CB400 Automatic. It has a 2 speed with a torque converter just like that. It's performance is definitly not impressive. I have not actually ridden it out of the neighborhood so far on account I's rebuilding the carbs and #1 is leaking. But, from around the block, it has reasonable power in 1st. It's slow for a 400 cc, but adequet. I got it up to abut 35-40 MPH so far. I believe it'll pull about 75-90 MPH.

    Its neat though. The torque converter does somewhat compensate for the lack of gears [multiplies the torque], and on some eventually locks up to a 1:1 at speed. But, not as efficient as a CVT. But seems to keep the RPMs steadier. CVT definitly way more power. But, IMO the torque converter is actually quite smoother than a CVT, espically off the line.

    I believe if runs 1/4s very slow between 15 and 19 or something like that.

    But, back when the speed limit is 55 MPH, it was a great bike. It'll cruise along at 60 MPH all day long. It gets there plenty fast to keep up with traffic. Uses a slightly detuned verson of the regular manual shift CB400 Hawk engine I believe. Its tuned for more steady RPMs, not for revving to the moon and taking off. But, this engine is ultra reliable and simple. Its a classic looking Honda Twin. The bike looks great and classic.

    Heres a pic of mine:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Also, there is a 750 cc verson, the CB750A. That was a hell of a bike. A bit more popular than the 400. It had an inline 4 750 cc, and took off great. It was a dog compared to a normal 750 inline 4 of course, but it had pleanty of power.
    #35
  16. CaseyJones

    CaseyJones Ridin' that train

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    That's fascinating. Wonder why the automatic cycle never took off? Especially since they look just like any other; save your pride, protect your manhood, but cruise without the hassle of counting gears.

    You say Honda had "torque converters"? Were they much bigger than the CVTs and centrifugal clutches used in Honda's scooters? How did those automatics measure up on performance, against today's scoots?
    #36
  17. go.duesouth

    go.duesouth Lord of the geeks

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    Honda is giving another stab at it. Search for the new Honda NC700X adventure bike. You can get it with an auto, and the gas tank has been moved and is now storage for a helmet. And with a very reasonable price, I have to admit, I'm tempted.
    #37
  18. btcn

    btcn Long timer

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    It is neat! I'm wander the same thing, why it didn't take off? I agree with you 100% there, with it looking just like any regular motorcycle [espically since it DOES have a gear shifter NOBODY that don't ride it or know them won't think its auto], so you'll look just as cool as any other biker on a Honda, yet enjoy the effortless auto. Seriously, its neat espically if you live in a huge city. If I lived in a big city I'd never have manual bike unless I use it for just longer trips.


    Yes, these did have torque converters, similar to those used in modern automatic transmissions in cars. I'd say they's a slightly wider than a regular clutch, but without all the gears not to wide. Its wider than a CVT but much shorter.

    Against a CVT, I'd say these are far slower. Even though to some degree the torque converter does multiply torque, it really only works well with a bigger engine. Say with a Big V-Twin with lots of torque, it'd be ideal. However, with a small engine, it has limited power. This only has 2 ratios, 1 hi 1 low. Low is used up to about 40-50 MPH or so, then hi. Hi CAN be used for lesurly acceleration off the line if desired.

    But, against a CVT, these ain't got the power. Now old cars with big engines often only had 2 or 3 ratios [think 70s Ford Trucks with 390/490 CI] for example, autos usually had just 3 gears. Even with that they can still smoke many modern trucks with 5/6 Speeds. You'd stay in 1st gear for a LONG time. The engine sorta stayed near it's peak power if you floor it, similar to a CVT. The 1st 2 was normal and then 3rd for highway low RPM cruising/OD. It could pull this off due to a big engine with loads of torque. These trucks often also got better MPG than comparatively smaller trucks, partly due to this, partle to 2 barrel carbs vs EFI.

    Now give a 2 speed or 3 speed on a 4 banger economy car, and it'd be nothing more than gutless obviously. It don't have the torque.

    Overall, it is hard to compare the 400/750 Manual vs. automatic streetbikes in someways, as for some reason, I believe Honda slightly detuned the engines for the auto models. Although this was likely to get more low end grunt for the trannys.

    But as far as I know. The torque converters were comparatively slow. But they return VERY smooth power. Off the line my CB is smoother than my Elite's CVT by lots. And pleanty of performance for everybody accept long distance touring on the open road, and mr adreninline junkie. But, honestly most commuters would be pleanty satisfied on these 400s.


    It does appear Honda's fixin to make some new autos. But they are often now overly complicated. We'll see how this new 700 is.
    #38
  19. vortexau

    vortexau Outside the Pod-bay

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    I don't know Honda's reasoning for their automatic models (easy bikes for civilian Americans?) but Moto Guzzi's were all to do with crafting motorcycles that might better attract US Police purchase contracts. Moto Guzzi had been the FIRST foreign motorcycle manufacturer to win bids to supply US Police departments:

    THE GOOSE PATROLã

    [​IMG]

    Notice that bottom line on the scanned page from Gary Smith's book? While the I-Convert's time for the Quarter Mile may seem somewhat lethargic, the criteria for Police Motorcycles "were literally Harley specifications".


    [​IMG]


    1972 Moto Guzzi Eldorado V7 850 Police Special


    featured in the 1973 Clint Eastward - David Soul 'Dirty Harry' movie "Magnum Force". Stunt riders in the movie rode versions which lacked windscreens for action shots.

    (Weird thing in movie, final sequence chase scenes in dockyard and on mothballed carriers featured stunt riders & actors on the 150lb lighter Triumph T120 Bonneville!)

    [​IMG]


    "Where's my shaft? Help - someone's stole my shaftdrive - call the police!" :lol3

    Without police equipment, this was marketed to the civilian US motorcyclists as the Eldorardo

    So what's that got to do with the 2-Speed Auto (Moto Guzzi V1000 I-Convert)? Read about that subject here.
    #39
  20. btcn

    btcn Long timer

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    Thats pretty neat! Man, if I was a bike cop, I'd definitly love an automatic! If I was a bike cop in a city, I'd hate the job without the automatic now nowing theres such thing!:deal Thanks for sharing this info!
    #40