*CSC 250cc RX-3 Cyclone

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by Chad05gsa, Sep 3, 2014.

  1. Dualsport Chic

    Dualsport Chic Long timer

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    A TTR with a road legal kit will do just fine on the TAT - its a Yamaha - beyond reliable! A Zongshen TT may not be up to that level of spec. yet. Folks have not put those kinds of miles on yet to test durability/reliability.
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  2. inroads

    inroads Wimberley,Texas

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    ^^^ no reason why the TT cannot do the TAT....is there a better choice ? Probably.

    Previous poster keeps trying to place limitations on Zongshen because it’s only been

    Around 2 years(and a good 2 year record it is) The rider of the TAT would be the limiting factor

    Not the bike.I have the almighty street legal Yamaha TTR which is the XT 225.

    A probable better choice than the TT but to say the TT isn’t up to the task is pure speculation.

    I did the southern half of the CDT this summer on my RX3....the TT probably would have been more

    Suitable on that than my RX3. Previous poster has a inferior Chinese mindset that is inaccurate in 2017.
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  3. JagLite

    JagLite Long timer

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    I have no doubt an RX-3 could do the entire TAT.
    I doubt it is what many would choose to ride the entire TAT.
    (keep in mind I have never ridden a Rex, so like a teenager, I still know everything)

    In the mountains an RX-3 pilot would have to go very slowly and carefully but it could be done.
    I would rather ride the Rex through the mountains than a big BMW GS.

    But I would prefer a small, very light dual sport or plated dirt bike to ride the mountain sections if I had a choice.

    From reading ride reports of those who have made the entire TAT on one bike, it seems that 90% can be ridden on just about any bike, but the tough 10% can be extremely challenging.
    While the mountains are most of the tough ten, there are other places where the sand or mud or water are counted in with the most difficult.

    I would love to ride the TAT but will probably never be able to afford to do it.
    Which bike to ride is often a fun thing to think about:

    Sometimes I think I would ride my TW200 because it is so easy to ride and it would make for some fun pictures.
    It forces a very slow pace because of the poor suspension and low(!) power.
    But it is a fun bike to ride that always makes me smile.

    But my DR650 would make the long miles of dirt roads just fly by with the excellent modified suspension, ergos setup for my 6'-4" height, lots of power, and very comfortable ride. But it is a bit heavy and is very tall so the tough 10% would be much more challenging than on the TW.

    Or perhaps my much modified Wee-Strom with proper suspension, spoke wheels and knobbie tires would be better?
    Nah, too top heavy for the tough ten for sure.

    Perhaps buy a different bike for the trip?
    A Yamaha XT 225 would be great with some suspension improvement and luggage capability.
    A Yamaha XT 250 might be better but it seems like a totally different bike than the 225, and not really an improvement from my one ride experience.
    Maybe a Honda Grom? That would be even better than a TW200 for the grin factor!

    Oh, well, dreaming is fun.
    There are so many good bikes to ride.
    And all bikes have strong points and weak points.
    I think the number one requirement for me would be reliability.
    The ability to continue on at whatever speed the bike can handle the terrain at without breaking down or falling apart.
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  4. Dualsport Chic

    Dualsport Chic Long timer

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    If you took the time to understand my credentials you'd likely think otherwise. I'd love for you to share your level of experience with the group so they can understand this. I am happy to share mine and can guarantee it will outpace yours significantly. And to let readers know that I am a 40 year veteran rider, who leads a 200 person D/S group that is in its 5th year with over 240 events held. Prior to that I co-led a 200 member plus road group for multiple years. And by the way, I am also an owner of the RX3 (1.5 years) and have taken it through its paces on several types of terrain) On average I log over 15K miles on two wheels each year.

    At the very best you are very sophomoric in your experience with motorcycles and the industry. Any readers of this thread need to take what you state with the understanding of your limited knowledge and depth of experience. You fail to take into account what happens in the middle of the TAT should there be a traumatic failure of an unproven bike that has relatively little long distance reliability data. Where will you be if/when that person is stranded - not there to help them - of that I am pretty sure.

    As I have said in the past - my intent is not to bash Zongshen products (for Christ sakes - I own one!) - but to provide potential owners of the bike's best use and potential limitations. They have a right to be informed as best as possible of all good and bad points then make their own decisions from there.
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  5. buckthedog

    buckthedog Eastbound and down

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    DS, I was thinking about even what I know of your credentials and the fact you own one (lol) .... so, as the tat is a pipe dream of mine, why wouldn't you take the rx3, aside from potential reliability issues? Suspension? You may remember I have an xt225 , so I am just curious. You have a 30k history with your xt so is it just easier to control? Power to weight? I was thinking it'd be an easier bike to ride, but wanted a more expert opinion. Thanks!
  6. inroads

    inroads Wimberley,Texas

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    Your ignorance is astounding.You know nothing of my credentials

    And unlike you I don’t need to get on a soapbox to prove it.

    I think the majority of your expertise exists in your mind.

    As if you are the final word on it.

    What a joke.Your biased views are outweighed only

    By your ego.
  7. Dualsport Chic

    Dualsport Chic Long timer

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    Hey There Buck -

    The RX3 is designed as a 'light' adventure bike. It does not have the suspension or travel that a proper TAT bike needs to to provide the rider the best chance possible for completing such an arduous journey. I have yet to hear that anyone has been able to find the sweet spot to get the bike suspended properly for serious off-road riding. It just may not be able to accommodate it based upon frame design etc.

    The bike is also somewhat weighty relative to their D/S counterparts - one can argue that taking engine guards/hard luggage off and exchanging for soft panniers may help - which I am in full agreement with. Light is might when traveling long distance off-road. Just took at 1200 mile 4 day off pavement trip through New England and was darn happy I chose my lightest bike to do it (XT250). I am a minimalist rider - 250cc can do just about anything admirably except superslab. They're light and powerful enough to challenge most obstacles.

    Then we move on to reliability. While the value prop is a great one for the RX3 and TT230, they both don't have the time in yet to certify there would be minimal chance of large system failures. We've seen some big miles on many of the bikes but have also seen some engine data coming back with mixed results from various owners - I am watching this very closely - failures/oil leaks etc. as well as some other various mechanical issues that have been commonplace (e.g. tranny issues). We have not yet heard that Zongshen/CSC is addressing these known items to provide a fix to prevent them in future renditions. There is not yet enough experience with these bikes to get a good enough sense of % failure. For anyone to go on the TAT or any other long distance adventure through varied and challenging terrain, reliability is critical. 20% of the TAT can go from docile to terrifying based upon weather conditions. To add a bike that is not yet proven is a gamble at best and generally inadvisable.
  8. Dualsport Chic

    Dualsport Chic Long timer

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    You just sidestepped the question my friend - trying to avoid providing your level of experience. I invite you come ride with me some day - we can then compare notes . . .
  9. GordonLightfoot

    GordonLightfoot McRib Master

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    WOW,

    I picked a good day to buy an RX3 and join in the discussion here I see, or wait, is this CSM???
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  10. Dualsport Chic

    Dualsport Chic Long timer

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    No worries Gordon - back to our regularly scheduled programming . . . :beer
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  11. hugemoth

    hugemoth Big Brother is watching you!

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    I don't know much about the RX3 but it's a lot more complex than the TT and a much newer design. I'd trust the TT on a long trip in the middle of nowhere because it's a simple bike with a Honda CG clone engine, a 40+ year old design that is the gold standard for longevity and reliability around the world.
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  12. pyoungbl

    pyoungbl Colonel Blood

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    Over at Chinariders.net one of the folks (RC) just posted that he now has 8,000 miles on his RX3. He has had the bike through 4 states, British Columbia, and 15 countries. You read that right...15 countries to include Ukraine and Armenia. About 1000 of those miles were off road. Crashed the bike a couple times. He did not mention any durability problems. The thread was about soft vs hard luggage, not so much about his trip. I'm prodding him to post more trip details. When we look at durability I think it's fair to consider the 5,000 miles at 8K rpm Joe et al did out west, several CSC sponsored trips to Baja, Joe's trip across China last year, RC's European trip, and a few other examples of beating the shit out of the bikes without failure. I think the RX3 is a tough little DS. Yes, it's less capable off road than some of the aforementioned bikes. At the same time, there have been successful TAT rides on 90cc Honda step through bikes as well as a few on 1000+ cc bikes. If you adjust your ride to the machine I think the RX3 would do just fine on the TAT. Note, I have only ridden a tiny part of the TAT in Tn so I'm certainly no expert. At the time I was on a G650GS...a fat pig of a bike that I grew to hate.
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  13. Dualsport Chic

    Dualsport Chic Long timer

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    Peter - we also need to bring to light other long term testers on the ChinaRiders.net forum - the longest is Spud who had to rebuild his engine - I believe it was in the 20K range. We just need a bigger pool of user data to compare reliability data - which we don't have and due to the small number of bikes out there - it may be hard to get. And only 1K miles was off-road it is not really a good comparison to a TAT type of tour.
  14. JagLite

    JagLite Long timer

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    While I have read of some Rex owners having serious engine problems, it is a very small number.
    I know that most owners of any bike never post their experiences with it, but we sure do post up when we have problems.
    I don't know how many RX3's are now riding around that have been sold by CSC but I'm sure it a good bunch.
    What percentage of owners are having problems?
    I know if I am one of the ones dealing with problems, it is a BIG problem.
    The ones who have had no problems wonder what all the fuss is about.

    However, reliability is critical to most of us I am sure.

    Zongshen is certainly a capable company and is a huge success because of it's quality.
    An engine company is not going to be successful if they have quality control problems.

    Interesting timing, I had this link pop up this morning on NewAtlas
    (if the link works...)

    A highlight of what they posted:

    Think of Zongshen as China's equivalent to Honda. One of China's most beloved motorcycle marques, it got its start making motorcycles in Chongqing in 1992. Zuo Zongshen is one of history's greatest rags-to-riches stories, rising from abject poverty to become one of the world's richest people. The Zongshen Group now has 50+ subsidiary companies and has diversified its technological development across many related industries and is well poised to ride the tides of change.

    [​IMG]
    The Zongshen stand in the company's home town featured a Proton Exchange Membrane Fuel Cell the company has under development (above). Zongshen also makes the motors for China's military drones and that was another highlight of a truly monumental display.

    There was little doubt in walking the floor at CIMA that intellectual property is paid scant regard in China, but that was also the case as Japan's motorcycle industry emerged, and quite soon the technological development torch was carried forth by the former plagiarizers. Wouldn't it be ironic if all those fuel cell prototype motorcycles we've seen at the Tokyo Motor Show for the last decade were beaten to market by the Chinese manufacturers?


    [​IMG]
    Zongshen is moving forward towards the electrification of its offerings on many fronts, showing a wireless charging station for electric motorcycles and ...

    [​IMG]
    ... Zongshen's relationship with Canadian company Electra Meccanica was another of the highlights. Electra Meccanica emerged from nowhere last year with its promising urban Solo three-wheeler EV, and has made remarkable progress in a short time frame. Now we understand why progress towards commercialization had been so quick. On a star-studded stand, the almost-a-motorcycle Solo was in pride of place, and in China's rush to electrification and with a government roadmap that does not favor motorcycles, it is clearly one of Zongshen's priorities.
    (note: Zongshen and Electra Meccanica just signed a deal for Zong to produce 750,000 (750K!) Solo three-wheelers over the next 3 years)
    [​IMG]
    Zongshen currently manufactures more than a million gas-burning motorcycles a year though, and the company's best known foreign partnerships involve the distribution of Harley Davidson in China and a manufacturing and distribution relationship with the Piaggio Group, encompassing Aprilia and myriad other Italian brand names.

    It's quite possible you've never heard of Chongqing, but despite the rise of India's motorcycle industry, it remains the de facto capital of the world's motorcycle industry.

    Chongqing is an ancient river port and trading hub, located where the Jialing River joins the Yangtze River, 1,800 km west of Shanghai, and 1,300 km north of Hanoi (Vietnam), and dates back at least 3,500 years. Though China's motorcycle industry is young by western standards, Chongqing has produced far more motorcycles than any other city in the world every year for the last decade, and it's where Loncin, Yinxiang, Lifan and Zongshen all began manufacturing motorcycles on their journey into industrial conglomerates.

    Most of China's major motorcycle manufacturers started in Chongqing and have used the concentration of related industries in the city of 14 million people to create a self-sustaining motorcycle empire ... an empire that is just about to undergo an electrification revolution.

    It's extraordinary how humanity's opinions can change so quickly. I remember a time when "Made in Japan" was a derogatory term, and it wasn't that long ago that "Made in China" was similarly dismissive. Now we're all carrying smartphones made in China with technology so complex that it might as well be "magic," so it's an ideal time to reflect upon how quickly technology has progressed in China.

    That last paragraph is true!


    Not to mention the Rex is sold in several other countries and probably more riders in other countries thrash their bikes a lot more than we do.

    As many owners have clearly stated, the Rex is NOT a dual sport and should not be confused with one and ridden like one.
    It is a great all-road traveler that can, like any street bike, go just about everywhere if ridden carefully.
    Is it the best choice for every ride? Of course not.
    Can it be improved? Of course, just like every bike built.

    I sure would like to read more ride reports of the Rex going where it really doesn't belong, like the entire TAT, a Long Way Round, a Long Way Down, and other long offroad / dirt road trips.

    There is a challenge for all the Rex owners. The gauntlet is thrown down. Your cheek has been slapped.
    :D
  15. Dualsport Chic

    Dualsport Chic Long timer

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    Great post Jag!

    To assist all adventurers, here's the link: http://www.transamtrail.com/

    We all have much to learn from one's journey on a Zongshen bike through the entire trail.
    JagLite likes this.
  16. jaratr

    jaratr Without a ride

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    :lurk This is an entertaining few posts!

    On the topic of the TAT. I've heard a lot of vastly differing opinions of the trail.

    Some are decrying you can't attempt it without a full boar DS bike, even then you must pray you'll survive.
    And other's—I will post a link when I can remember the dude's name–who cry foul on the TATs arduousness.

    So sometimes I don't know what to think. It's been 15 years since I've done real riding. Not counting short jaunts on friends bikes. But offload has always been easy to me. Never frightening. On-road I feel out of my element. Probably due to most of my riding experience being on dirt, coal, rocks, mud, snow, ice (even the black stuff).

    IF life stops dropping turd bombs on me, I'm EXTREMELY interesting in getting and RX3 and just hitting the TAT, taking many photos of those middle finger salutes so famous on these boards, just to face the "you can't on that bike" challenge.

    But, i'm kinda stupid like that... so...
  17. shaner1100gs

    shaner1100gs Been here awhile

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  18. JagLite

    JagLite Long timer

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    Thanks for posting the TAT link, I should have thought to do that for those not familiar with it... :thumb

    The TAT has a lot of alternate routes in the toughest areas so that riders can bypass things they are not comfortable riding.
    Depending on how many alternates a rider takes, it could be done on a Goldwing probably.

    And thanks to shaner1100gs for the link for RTWdoug's TAT ride, I look forward to reading it! :beer
  19. buckthedog

    buckthedog Eastbound and down

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    As an rx3 rider and wannabe TAT completer, I don't think the question is "can" the bike do it, I would think most bikes could do it, but whether it would be safe, enjoyable and enhance or detract from the overall experience. For me, and many like me, we have a spouse, children, grandchildren, sporting events, school activities and at least one job, or like me, multiple jobs. So, it would be an incredible undertaking as I sadly am not a trust-fund adult man-child who is unfettered by the need to work. I would hate to have the trip of a lifetime hampered, ruined, cut short or stopped by bringing the wrong tool for the job.

    It is probably a moot point anyway, as based on my current trajectory I will have to work until I am about 118 years old .
  20. Dualsport Chic

    Dualsport Chic Long timer

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    Here's to hoping the planets will one day align for you to take on this adventure Buck!
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