Dakar Dazed II - the return! Part 1: Project LC4-50

Discussion in 'Racing' started by JMo (& piglet), Jan 26, 2013.

  1. ktmmitch

    ktmmitch Been here awhile

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    Bloody hell Lyndon,it's a good job I'm on holiday this week so I have time to answer all those questions!!!
    In response,here is the best I can explain .........

    1.Cosworth understood that our brief was to try and keep the cylinder head standard,so that we can hopefully supply a customer 450 kit,which will consist of a short-stroke crank,and new piston,therefore making the kit as simple(and cheap) as possible.To this end,we realise we have compromised the gas flow,as they had to design such a high intruder into the combustion chamber,in order to get the compression back to standard,due to the fact we are only now sweeping 450cc instead of 654cc into the same head.This wont become apparent until we build and run the motor,but we will have to cross that bridge when we come to it.

    2.Initially we will try the std cam & 690 rally cam,but have offers of cam design help from outside if we need it.

    3.We annealed the piston after welding and will stress-relieve it after machining,it did distort slightly,as the gudgeon pin was very tight going in,so we reamed it back to 20mm diameter.It is something we will have to live with for the prototype engine.

    4.Cosworth engineers did suggest the reduction in valve & port size to get more efficiency,but again, we want to keep the head standard, for simplicity.

    5.The new production 450ccCosworth piston will be slightly heavier than the OEM version.The other 2 versions(stock comp & hi-comp 690cc) will be OEM weight.

    Like you say,we are on a journey,not quite sure of the result,but we are definitely going to give it our best shot at making a "clubman" Dakar-spec 450 Rally bike, that is affordable and uber-reliable.We realised that from Day 1 it would never have 450RR power,but that is what we are prepared to swap for reliability and expense.

    It will be great to get it on the road and trail ride it soon,come down and try it out.
  2. Pyndon

    Pyndon Long timer

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    John, thanks for the comprehensive response, this is as I'd thought but just thought I'd ask. Given that you are just down the road, I'd love to come down for a ride on it or even help with any niggles if I can.

    I am sick today.....hence the only reason I have time to post!! Should be out training / riding really.

    Thanks again, see you soon. Lyndon
  3. ktmmitch

    ktmmitch Been here awhile

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    [​IMG]

    It must have been the fish,chips,mushy peas & fanta that tipped you over the edge!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    A racer's diet if ever I saw it.......
  4. Pyndon

    Pyndon Long timer

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    :rofl It started about 4 hours after that!
  5. gladiator

    gladiator Adventurer

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    This really is mouth-watering stuff. Thanks guys :D
  6. ktmmitch

    ktmmitch Been here awhile

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    [​IMG]I had a great surprise today when arriving at Torque Racing HQ, as Martin had fitted the new piston to the waiting bottom end of the project 450 motor, then finished it off with the rebuilt head.
    All turned over well, plenty of valve clearance and nice compression.I was very impressed to see it all come together after many months of hard work, given the huge personal setbacks we have all had over the last year.
    I am extremely glad it has got this far, and much credit goes to Martin at Torque Racing, Dan Coxall at Cosworth, Derrick Edmondson & Jonah at Edmondson Racing for their support in all aspects of this project.
    It is at landmark times like this that our absent friends, Gordon & Wes, are most missed, as they would both have had a lot to say about the idea, as they were both involved in it's conception.
    The next stage is to get it into a bike when we return fron Transanatolia Rallye in Turkey for trail testing.[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
  7. garfey

    garfey Scruffy Adventurer

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    :clap:clap:clap:clap
    Fingers crossed!
  8. JMo (& piglet)

    JMo (& piglet) Gone a bit Baja

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    News hot off the press!!!

    Just spoken to John at Rally Raid this afternoon and Martin & Donna from Torque Racing have not only fired up the LC4-50 engine, but Donna has test ridden it in her 690 race bike - it's alive!!!

    More info (and photos and video) from John and Co. soon!

    Woop! Jx
  9. GalacticGS

    GalacticGS 1200 GS Rider

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    Congrats on achieving that next big step!!! :thumb
  10. Yellow Pig

    Yellow Pig Allergic to Asphalt!

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    Very cool! :clap
  11. NordieBoy

    NordieBoy Armature speller

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    How soon is soon?

    I feel a little Art of Noise is appropriate...

    How rapid is rapid?
    How quick is quick?
    Hurrah!
  12. ktmmitch

    ktmmitch Been here awhile

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    [​IMG]Today was a milestone in the development of our project Dakar LC4-50 motor.After many months of work by all parties, encouragement in our idea, and some doubting, we finally achieved the goal of hearing the special short-stroke 450cc LC4 engine run for the first time at Torque Racing HQ.

    Martin Wittering worked tirelessly to get the engine built so that we could fit it into a donor KTM690 Enduro and take it with us for testing in Spain next week.

    The bike started on the button, and ( no surprise) sounds like a 690, although a little softer off the bottom-end, and this was without the chance to do any re-mapping of the EFI system with our software.

    It is an excellent pick-me-up for all those involved in the translation of our initial idea to make a "clubman" Dakar bike for those riders with redundant 690RR or 690 Enduro bikes, using a short-stroke crank and Cosworth high compression piston.

    The 5 riders from UK & Malta who were going to Transanatolia Rallye in Turkey with Torque Racing are now going on a 1000km roadbook trip in Spanish Pyrennes, due to the late cancellation of the Transanatolia by the organisers.
    Well done to Donna & Martin for arranging this trip at the last-minute so that we all still get to ride our rally bikes.
    It will also be a good test for the new engine, plenty of miles, but without the strain of racing.

    Link to video

    [​IMG]
  13. wrk2surf

    wrk2surf on the gas or brakes

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    For all the ADV'ers to see and hear!!! Good work Brits !!!!!

    <iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/video/embed?video_id=430883630364037" width="1280" height="960" frameborder="0"></iframe>
  14. kyns

    kyns Long timer

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    Pfff.
  15. Czechie

    Czechie Adventurer

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    it is amazing what you guys can do with this bike. Very much enjoy reading about any of your new products. Good luck. :clap

    Keep on bringing more ....
  16. RoninMoto

    RoninMoto Wanderer

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    Great work guys! :clap:clap:clap:clap

    Do I spot a Touratech countershaft guard on that bike?:D
  17. ktmmitch

    ktmmitch Been here awhile

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    Yes Noah, it is Donna's bike. We have to get her completely over to the Dark Side soon!!!!!!!
  18. Johnnyktm

    Johnnyktm Been here awhile

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    Great news!!!!!!! :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap
  19. gladiator

    gladiator Adventurer

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    Hi KtmMitch
    I have an '08 690 and am interested in this hi compression piston of yours. The '08 (654cc)has a 102 mm bore, i'm not sure if the newer 690's(690cc) have the same bore? What size is this piston of yours? Will I have to bore my barrel and re-plate?
  20. ktmmitch

    ktmmitch Been here awhile

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    All 690 & 654cc motors have same bore & cyl head detail.Our hi-comp Cosworth pistons will work with either engine, no boring or re-plating required.