Dakar Dazed II - the return! Part 1: Project LC4-50

Discussion in 'Racing' started by JMo (& piglet), Jan 26, 2013.

  1. ktmmitch

    ktmmitch Been here awhile

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    After a brief meeting at the Dirt bike Show with Tim Shires from A&M EDM to discuss the special requirements that will be needed for our LC4-50 Dakar crankshaft, Tim & his team are now giving the OEM KTM 690 Enduro crankshaft a thorough investigation in their testing department.
    This will give us the information needed to start work on machining the new parts required to give the 25mm reduction in stroke in order to meet the 450cc limit for Dakar.
    Our aim is to achieve the same strength as the super-reliable LC4 crank assembly, but with slightly less weight, to help the smaller motor spin up quicker, but without compromising reliability.
    Thanks to Derrick Edmondson & Graham Jones(Jonah) for help in splitting the LC4 crank for Tim.
    Next job is to get the 690 balance shaft assembly over to Tim to calculate the new mass required for the 450 motor.[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
  2. ktmmitch

    ktmmitch Been here awhile

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    Here are some of the latest pics from Tim Shires at A&M EDM in the UK who are developing the new production crank for our LC4-50 project Dakar bike.
    They have been sectioning and analizing both OEM KTM 690 & 450EXC cranks & con rods to get an accurate spec for the material & hardening techniques used.
    We hope to have the first 3 production crank assemblies in the New Year.
    As you can see, Tim & his team are leaving nothing to chance in our quest for a super-strong, reliable crank build for our short-stroke motor.[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
  3. tehdutchie

    tehdutchie Long timer

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    Great job!!
  4. ktmmitch

    ktmmitch Been here awhile

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    We have had some extensive stress analysis done, which is simulating the different scenarios that are available to us when developing our short-stroke crank for the LC4-50 project.
    The main problem is that by reducing the stroke to 55mm from 80mm, we move the crankpin 12,5mm nearer the journals, which can cause an overlap, depending on the diameter of the crankpin.
    We will probably go for an OEM 450EXC crankpin, as this gave the best stress results.
    As in life, nothing is straightforward, but there is a lot to learn.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
  5. Fantuzzi

    Fantuzzi Been here awhile

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    I hope my question is not too off-topic after all this KTM wrenching.
    Could someone link or pm where I could find this Rallye headlight/fairing? I've seen it a few times on pictures, but never for sale in a web shop.
    Cheers
    Dirk
  6. italrally

    italrally Been here awhile

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    http://www.jvoracing.es
  7. Fantuzzi

    Fantuzzi Been here awhile

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    Thank you very much.

    ... but it does not seem to be a shop.:hmmmmm
  8. Happe

    Happe Offroad Nut

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  9. Fantuzzi

    Fantuzzi Been here awhile

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  10. ratdog

    ratdog Been here awhile

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    For those of us familiar with the early BMW R1100S bikes, that color was referred to as DDP - dog dick pink ;-)
  11. JMo (& piglet)

    JMo (& piglet) Gone a bit Baja

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    I thought I might update this thread, in preparation for a brand new thread in the build up to Dakar 2015 - coming just as soon as we have the production LC4-50 bike up and running, sometime later this month!

    In the meantime, John/KTMmitch (Rally Raid Products) and Martin (Torque Racing) together with their associated partners have been really busy finalising the production spec of the 450cc conversion 'kit' - that essentially encompasses and new crank, rod and piston, together with a remapped ECU...

    The production parts are now in well, erm, 'production' - as can be seen in the following photos:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    It's like jewelry isn't it?!

    There is an ongoing blog report from John here on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RallyRaidProducts

    And all being well, we should have all the production parts by the 20th of February, ready for Martin to build into the first production LC4-50 engine and bike!

    Then I'll be taking it down to Tunisia (together with a number of other Torque Racing riders' bikes)... and will be able to put it through it's paces while the Tuareg rallye is taking place.

    We will them be officially launching the 2015 Dakar team project, that will include a second fully-supported sister bike - available as a rental and/or purchase package, offering the chance for another rider to get to Dakar far cheaper (and with a much greater level of support) than might be otherwise possible in the time frame - all you need to be able to do is meet the ASO's entry criteria for Dakar, and the dream ride can be yours* - in just 10 months time!

    Exciting times!

    More soon!

    Jenny xx

    ps. *For riders outside of the UK (ie. most of you!) the LC4-50 rental package for 2015 will also include a complete LC4-50 engine, and full set of Tractive rally suspension for you to fit to your own KTM 690 as a 'training bike' throughout 2014. This is in addition to having the actual race bike (built in the UK) available for a number of events in Europe and North Africa this year, in preparation for Dakar 2015.

    It is an awesome deal!!!
  12. Carlos M

    Carlos M www.motoxplorers.com

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    Thanks for the update. Jewelry it looks indeed! :thumb

    The 450 rule had this funny effect: to have the closest to a "production/marathon/amateur not needing an oil-change everyday" machine one has to resort to "factory/works" Cosworth jewelry... Congratulations to the development team for taking that challenge! :clap
  13. JMo (& piglet)

    JMo (& piglet) Gone a bit Baja

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    Yes! - it is kind of ironic... it would have been far easier if they'd just let us race a 690... but progress is progress... and perhaps this project will in some small way encourage manufacturers to consider a move away from outright power and performance towards longevity and longer service schedules for 'dual-sport' bikes?

    Certainly in this day and age it ought to be perfectly possible to have a half litre size motorcycle engine that produces plenty of torque and power, but with usefully lighter weight and increased economy - without the compromises a full on 'race' engine requires...

    The car manufacturers have managed it with a host of sub 2-litre 4-cylinder engines producing amazing power coupled with long-term reliability (think all the Japanese rally cars, and their road-going derivatives) - and of course Honda are taking up the mantel with their twin cylinder 500 and 700cc motorcycle engines...

    Of course even the current incarnation of the LC4 engine is relatively 'old school' in it's architecture (and specifically physical size and weight) - but ultimately it is it's core strength that if far more appropriate for a long distance (and long term ownership) prospect than a bike with an engine that needs to be thrown away/rebuilt at the end of each season?

    Right, Sermon over... more metal porn to follow:

    [​IMG]

    From John this morning: "All parts for the LC4-50 are now machined and heat-treated, just final shot-peening to do before building up the crank assy.
    The shot peening helps reduce stress on the parts, which will definitely be under stress once we get testing.
    The new crank webs have been designed to be in balance with the new piston design, and extra rod length, and also to be slightly "out of balance" so as to be corrected by the OEM balance shaft, which is designed to even out the vibes from the 690 motor.
    Thanks to A&M EDM, and Tim, for all this essential calculation work."

    http://www.amedm.co.uk/


    Jx
  14. 640 Armageddon

    640 Armageddon Do or Do Not. There is no try.

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    Jenny

    Excellent pics and info in that, I like the research behind it :clap:clap

    is Cosworth doing the peening work? :ear
  15. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Long timer

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    Do any changes in the 2014 Duke engine 690 complicate things for the future of the project?

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
  16. ktmmitch

    ktmmitch Been here awhile

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    I apologise for hijacking Jenny's thread, but in answer to your question, in theory, no it should be the same.But the new twin plug head may have a different combustion chamber shape, so until we get a 2014 motor apart and confirm this, the jury is out.
  17. JMo (& piglet)

    JMo (& piglet) Gone a bit Baja

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    No, Cosworth are just in charge of the pistons - the crank and rod is manufactured by A&M EDM (link in the post above)...

    Jx
  18. JMo (& piglet)

    JMo (& piglet) Gone a bit Baja

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    Not a hijack at all - 'Mitch is your man when it comes to the techno-nerdy stuff here!

    I was just going to direct Sparrowhawk your way anyway, as I thought this might have been the answer...

    Jx
  19. 640 Armageddon

    640 Armageddon Do or Do Not. There is no try.

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    :thumbup

    Mailed John about shot peening details and superfinishing guys I know in the UK :evil
    Shot peening can actually double the life of the gears as well, especially if it is well controlled and not ''black art'' type of peening. Not to hijack the thread, but just to add how brilliant this process is, crack may be on the surface of the component, but when you peen it, the stresses produced by the process make the cracks actually close. It is done in all high performance motorsport parts, valve springs, gearboxes, pistons, rods, cranks... anything that sees cyclic loads basically and fails through fatigue...

    Excellent to see that such a process is used in these components. Increased reliability and high tech parts :deal:clap
  20. Johnnyktm

    Johnnyktm Been here awhile

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    Very interesting... thanks for the information!! :clap