Deactivate the ABS while moving? F800GS

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by Migs, Nov 25, 2010.

  1. Y E T I

    Y E T I Unpossible

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    You would have to hack the BMS-K. Good luck with that. Hacking BMW's cars takes hundreds of hours, there likely isn't any financial worth in it.
    #61
  2. Miikka

    Miikka Sir Fallalot

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    Count me in!
    Would be a relief not to worry about turning off ABS after each stop.

    :lurk

    -Miikka


    #62
  3. Xskydiver

    Xskydiver Been here awhile

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    There are those of us as well who ride a combination of dirt and pavement and cross back over both surfaces many times in a day, so turning it off then back on just as easily would my preference.
    #63
  4. M N B

    M N B would rather be riding

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    Those people have two options:

    1) Leave the bike as is

    2) deploy the switch, but leave it off (ie: stock operation) on days where you'll be mixing it up more and flip the switch for days where you're doing mostly or all dirt.
    #64
  5. Burnszilla

    Burnszilla BurnsMoto.com

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    #65
  6. Desert Dave

    Desert Dave Enjoying the moment

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    I'll be ordering one of these real soon.

    This is my first bike with ABS and it took all of one ride in the dirt to realize how easy the ABS can get you hurt if I forget to turn it off, it'll be nice to have this option on the fly.

    Not to hijack this thread to bad or start an ABS war, but I'm finding the ABS really annoying ON road as well if I'm really pushing it. Especially if I'm trail braking into a corner with a few bumps, right when I need to have brake feel the most the pedal starts jacking like Satan is doing pull ups on it trying to throw me off my line. I've only ridden the bike with TKCs, is this contributing to the problem? If this is the best it can do it's far from a transparent system.
    #66
  7. sfwo79

    sfwo79 euroromper

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    I try and remember to turn off my ABS at all times unless I'm going to be on the highway. I'd rather have the option to slide and lay it down if I need to in and around town. Out on the highway at speed, I think the ABS can do what it was designed for.

    My $.02
    Dave
    #67
  8. Y E T I

    Y E T I Unpossible

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    :lurk
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  9. Fronnzy

    Fronnzy Been here awhile

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    It's not the TKC's. I have the stock tires, which are really street tires with a slightly deeper tread, and it can be bad. I live in Edmonton at the moment and the roads here are 3rd world. I don't even have to be riding that aggresively to set off the ABS on a rough patch.

    I know it's cool to have ABS on a bike, and it probably even helps in some situations, but the jury is still out for me. All my previous bikes were non-ABS and they seemed to work just fine.

    I have a few other bits to aquire first, but I will get to this switch for sure.
    #69
  10. bxr140

    bxr140 Flame Bait

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    Arg.

    Sorry for the derailing, but this is a pet peeve of mine: "Had to lay 'er down" is never the right answer.
    #70
  11. 'Flagger

    'Flagger ..this space for rent..

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    Transparant? As in "I don't want to know when the ABS kicks in"?

    That would scare me more I think.
    #71
  12. Desert Dave

    Desert Dave Enjoying the moment

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    No, as in I don't want the ABS to kick in while riding in situations that I don't need it. Turning the ABS off I can ride through the same road pushing just as hard without any ill effects, I don't want ABS to do ANYTHING in those circumstances.

    The reason I used the word transparent is that before I got ABS I've always heard the argument that you'll never know you have ABS on the bike until you need it, so it's transparent until it saves you from a certain deadly lock up. So far I haven't found that to be the case as it kicks in long before I need it in some circumstances, and actually makes it harder to hold a constant brake pressure at the limit of traction.
    #72
  13. M N B

    M N B would rather be riding

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    Sure it is. If you can't avoid, laying it down is likely you best course of action vs direct impact.

    That said, most people give up too easily and make the decision to lay it down.
    #73
  14. sfwo79

    sfwo79 euroromper

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    Laying it down is a viable option of last resort that isn't possible with ABS. I have resorted to it a couple of times in my last 35 years of riding and it has saved my ass.
    #74
  15. JoelWisman

    JoelWisman Long timer

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    I have 21 years of riding experience, most of which, including now, year round without even owning a car.

    Zero broken bones, one sprained ankle, one sore knee.

    I am interested in learning under what conditions rolling traction will not allow you to stop quicker or turn sharper then throwing the bike on it's side to slide with a very low coefficient of friction on expensive metal and plastic parts?

    Ok, if your going to T-Bone a semi you could lay it down and slide under it, are there any other cases?

    P.S. You can lay down an ABS bike quite easily, just turn the handle bars without shifting weight or counter-steering. The laws of physics are still in force, the bike will go down.

    P.P.S. Oh yeah, had a cop once tell me that its useful to lay down a bike when your being shot at so you can slide on your back behind it and return fire from a covered position. I will have to take his word for it as I don't get shot at often enough to judge this.

    Any other situations sliding on metal and plastic is better then rubber?
    #75
  16. Fronnzy

    Fronnzy Been here awhile

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    It is silly to quote myself, but what a difference a few days makes. It's been raining a lot here, and one of our main streets, Yellowhead, is a trucking route that is notorious for oily, messy surfaces in wet weather. I was making a lane change to pass at speed, when someone changed there mind on an exit and jumped back into traffic right in front of me. Had it not been for ABS I would have hit the bumper for sure.

    Fine. It's good.

    But I still don't like it on all the time. :twitch
    #76
  17. Desert Dave

    Desert Dave Enjoying the moment

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    I've just got to ask, how long did you ride bikes without ABS and how did you live?

    I've owned twenty something bikes without it and haven't once needed it to save my life or even prevent a crash, and there have been plenty of full on stops at well over 50 mph where i had to trust myself.

    I respect everything in your post except that one line, I really think you aren't giving yourself enough credit. Seriously.
    #77
  18. JoelWisman

    JoelWisman Long timer

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    I can answer this question for myself. I rode for 16 years without abs. Being that I mostly rode sport bikes and had highly developed braking skills (I've won perhaps 50 bets that I could outstop others, never lost) I can only recall 5 times I over braked and crashed. (no crashes were into fixed objects, but deliberately or unintentionally putting a bike on it's side counts as a crash for me)

    That said, the past 5 years have had a number of situations that where somewhere between annoyance and terror which I feel could have turned into a significant crash.

    Why the desparity? Well, cars are making more bonehead maneuver, especially since smart phones became necessary for youthful existence, but truthfully, there is a bigger reason, i am riding faster, especially in questionable traction conditions.

    In other words, I am taking advantage of the increased margin of safety abs provides by filling some of it with increased speed.

    So does abs increase safety or simply increase speed?

    I believe it increases safety, and so does every motorcycle insurance company who has studied it.

    Am I depending on technology and allowing manly braking skills to rust?

    Yes and no. I ceartnly do not practice unlocking wheels as often as I used to, but have also gained knoweledge on just how much traction is available under conditions I never did in the 16 years before it.

    In any case it's going to become a moot discussion. Abs will be mandated on cars and motorcycles. Vehicle inspections will confirm it is not bypassed. The years of choice, sadly, are numbered and small.
    #78
  19. Desert Dave

    Desert Dave Enjoying the moment

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    Joel, that's a fine post and makes your point well.

    Maybe a big difference between that and myself is that honestly I'm slowing down and taking less chances these days. After spending years on the racetrack (road race and dirt) I've pushed my limits enough and have no intentions of riding like that on the street (or dirt :lol3). If I did I'd go back to the track. I can't remember the last time I've ridden without what I felt was a large margin for error. I do still ride spirited and so far my impression of the ABS on my F800 is that I spend far more time riding around what it's doing than reaping any benefit. If it's raining on the freeway, I'll leave it on, but I don't count on it one bit. As technology advances I'm sure a system will come out (maybe already has) that doesn't make me feel that way and I'll be fine with it, until then I like having the choice.

    That's it, that simple.
    #79
  20. JoelWisman

    JoelWisman Long timer

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    I hear you Dave, and your methods are sound. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure........

    Abs is a sometimes cure for a lack of prevention of situations where heavy braking or maneuvering while braking are required.

    The variant of abs on the F800GS is Bosch ABS 8M. Pretty much the same as many cars sans 2 hydraulic and sensor circuits with firmware biased away fram maximum braking towards directional stability.

    There are some limitations that will trip it up for a fraction of a second and I suspect you are noticing these.

    One limitation is operational speed, at best 8M can detect blocking, unblock, and get back to maximum braking 3.75 times a second.

    A practiced and highly skilled rider can have the wheel at the threshold a higher percentage of the time in good conditions then 8M can.

    Next 2 wheels presents quite a challenge for 8M, more would be better.

    With only 2 wheels, 8M struggles to figure when a wheel is blocking versus just speeding and decelerating over a bump or pot hole. Honestly, I activate abs 12 times a day on a short ride, and it has never been confused more then half a second, but it is disconcerting, especially if you don't understand what is happening, why, and how long until threshold braking will return.

    3 years of 8M ABS use, and it has never been significantly wrong, but it's minorly wrong all the time. If anyone doesent understand how abs can be minority wrong, brake firmly while crossing a pothole, feel the brakes release as your coming out of the hole? Brake the same firmness with abs off through the same hole, the brakes won't release and the wheels won't skid.

    8M is very good, but has limitations. In my book it is of huge benefit, but has drawbacks.

    For what it's worth, I just recieved my certification on the new K1600 bmw's, as well as got to ride one hard (wheelies and stopies :). The K1600 uses a GEN3 abs system. It is lighter, faster, and less confuseable. I expect this tech to trickle down to help convert the last of the non abs converts, but probably not till 2013

    Either way, the main reason for posting on this thread was to state my advice to keep the rubber side down, with abs or without.

    Many happy miles.
    #80