Dealing with dealers.....

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by outdoornate65, Nov 19, 2012.

  1. outdoornate65

    outdoornate65 Adventurer

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    So I've been shopping around the local dealerships for my next bike (have only bought one new bike in the past) and I'm getting pretty frustrated with the dealer BS.

    How is it that there are such varied numbers when it comes to dealer "costs"?

    For example:

    One local dealer quoted me a decent price for a 2012 bike I'm considering and said their dealer costs were $109.

    I went to another dealer, still here in Denver, and he wouldn't quote me a price and wanted over $600 in "dealer costs"!! WTF?? :eek1

    So for those of you that have been around the block a few times, what should I "reasonably" expect to pay in fees and what sort of mark-downs from MSRP should I be looking for on left-over 2012 models? Talking about a $6000 bike....not some $17,000 KTM.

    Thanks,

    Nate
    #1
  2. daveoneshot

    daveoneshot Been here awhile

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    Try this : Walk into the place that has your favorite bike with your cash....in hundred dollar bills. " This is what I am going to give you for that bike over there, do you want it or not ?? " Might make an impression.
    #2
  3. mattness

    mattness Adventurer

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    step 1. take a post it note
    step 2. write "10,000 OTD for your 2012 xxxcycle" return "cell @ 1-888-888-8888" signed "John"
    step 3. slap it on his desk.
    step 4. go home
    step 5. answer cell phone
    step 6. go get bike
    #3
  4. Patch

    Patch Been here awhile

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    I wouldn't do that ... especially on a $6k bike :D

    Odd that the dealer wouldn't quote you a price at all? Seems like one of 2 things: either you gave him the impression that you weren't a serious buyer or he's an asshat
    #4
  5. spafxer

    spafxer Long timer

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    They're just trying to prevent comparison shopping.. Destination fees are a good one too..

    Dealer costs... I'd ask if a $100 keeps the doors open, that's pretty cheap :lol3


    If it's a cash deal, the bottom line is all that counts. When you go with the dealer's financing and other options, it's harder to compare. But the numbers on the financing papers tell all.. READ IT

    I never give any down payment cash or check until I see the papers either. Once given, it's a bitch to get it back.



    My dealer which I had bought 2 bikes before, I said I wanted the new bike set up a certain way... When he pointed to the parts counter like I was supposed to do it, I promptly walked out the door and bought used. Set up the way I wanted.
    #5
  6. RedShark

    RedShark Long timer

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    Very few customers of new-bike dealers pay cash, thus when talking about prices, the salemen are reluctant to get into the "bottom line" because it really doesn't matter that much - it's all about getting to a 'monthly payment that you can live with' and a few hundred off thier bottom line will only make a small delta in the monthly.

    So, if you ARE paying cash-ola, then be clear about that. That said, dealerships make a LOT of money on financing, so don't expect the sales manager to drop to his knees just because you brought your checkbook.

    What is a 'fair' dealer up-charge ? What the market will bear, unfortunately - I know it's not a straight answer, but it's the truth. There is no X that is 'fair' to add to an MSRP (which btw IS RETAIL afterfuckingall). Popular models that move well don't have to be bargained away, ones that are harder to move are more apt to find some 'flexibility' - used bikes at new dealers typically carry LARGER profit margains than do new iron, btw.

    Stay frosty, my friend. Pick a dealer you LIKE working with and make an effort to do a fair deal with them - know the value of the bike and be firm if they insist on yanking you around. If you are liquid enough to make a purchase without bothering with financing then YOU have the power - there is a LOT of machinery out there, especially at this time of year.

    Do not be afraid to walk out of a dealership - that is YOUR power. Sales negotiation is ALL ABOUT controlling the situation " Wait here while I talk to my manager..." while you sip battery-acid coffee that would make a truck driver edgy.

    Every salesman worth his polyester shirt knows that the half hour spent 'negotiating' is THE MOST profitable time he'll spend all week. The 'cards on the table', no-bullshit sales scheme worked out so very well for SATURN afterall....

    Learn to ENJOY the game and ALWAYS be prepared to walk away. Remember the mantra:

    "There is lots of iron out there. There is lots of iron out there. "

    Unless of course you want something rare-ish and they know that they have what you want, then just bend over.

    Cards, keep them close - NEVER let on if you really like a feature, color, etc - you aren't there to sell THEM on what a good shopper you are, all you do is re-inforce THEIR position if you extoll the virture of anything they have. You don't have to insult stuff, just NEVER say something along the lines of how well something fits you or the color matching your girlfriend's eyes, 'cause that makes what THEY HAVE more valuable TO YOU.

    example: Perfect mint condition Vincent Black Shadow = " Well, I guess that old thing might do..."
    #6
  7. TrashCan

    TrashCan Scary Jerry

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    :huh

    Did you not want to pay for extra parts that you wanted???

    How did the dealer do you wrong?
    #7
  8. Qwik

    Qwik Adrenaline Addict

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    RedShark Nailed it.Have a set price in mind. Let em know thats what you will pay OTD. They say no get up and leave. There are other dealers on the front range.
    #8
  9. fast4d

    fast4d Long timer

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    thats how I did it. and it worked
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  10. markk9

    markk9 Been here awhile

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    First step is to either have cash in hand or your own financing in place before the purchase. Research what the bike is really worth. I have purchased Kawasaki and Harley-Davidson new in the past and have always followed the 1K under MSPR out the door. The only number you should care about is the OTD price ( the amount you actually pay). How the dealer plays with the numbers is of no concern to me.
    #10
  11. AdventurePoser

    AdventurePoser Long timer

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    Do your research first. Know what you want and how much it costs. Arrange your financing ahead of time and pay cash. This has always been my strategy and I've gotten a fair price in each of my transactions.
    #11
  12. BillMoore

    BillMoore Been here awhile

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    Another factor for me is the value of my time. Yes, do your research and yes negotiate the best possible deal that you can. But for me a big factor was getting the deal done in a reasonable amount of time, and with a dealer that was convenient for service after the sale. Yeah, I might have been able to get the bike for $300 less if I had spent 2 weeks visiting every dealership in a 100 mile radius, but I have better ways to spend my time...
    #12
  13. eepeqez

    eepeqez Long timer

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    What is the difference between paying $5995 plus $150 dealer costs and paying $5645 plus $500 dealer costs?
    There is none.

    Your basic position is that you have cash and you want to know how much the dealer proposes to charge you for a new Hyperfast JKL650, out the front of his dealership (or delivered to a specified location if that's what you want), registered in your name, within 14 days.

    If they won't quote a complete price (and make it clear you're not interested in any bullshit about how they arrived at the number and how much of it they are pretending is to pay to take the bike out of its crate and put it together), then you can't agree to a deal, end of story.

    It's pretty basic stuff; "I'd like to buy x, what is your price for x? You won't tell me your price for x and yet you want me to agree to buy it anyway? Well, no, I'm not about to sign a blank cheque for whatever additional costs you want to invent."

    In Australia it is no longer legal to advertise new vehicles at a price which you won't actually sell for - the price cannot exclude any hidden "on road" costs, including registration and compulsory 3rd party injury insurance.
    #13
  14. eepeqez

    eepeqez Long timer

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    Naturally after you've done this at several dealers, go back to the others and offer them less than the cheapest so far!
    #14
  15. advNZer?

    advNZer? Long timer

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    but be prepared for them to say no,thats part of the game too.They have to make a profit to keep the doors open,
    #15
  16. Pantah

    Pantah PJ Fan from Boston

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    The hard way:

    1. Dealer cost on the motorcycle is about 85% of MSRP
    2. If the bike has been sitting on the floor, their financing costs are piling
    3. Select all the accessories you want and assume dealer cost is 70%
    4. Total it up and offer the number as a cash offer ready to pick it up today
    5. Put it down on paper so they can see exactly what you want and how much

    They'll come back with a counter offer. The first thing they'll drop is the dealer prep mark-up and agree to cost on accessories. After that it will be their destination charge. If it's not close than politely walk but make sure they have your contact points. After that it is a matter of how bad you want the bike and gear and who you want to deal with.

    The fun way: My favorite thing to do is buying new motorcycles. I like to buy from the dealers I enjoy so my first step is to pick the dealer. I want it to be a fun experience and I want their help going forward, so I never really grind their axles off anymore. I pick my number and they counter. I always get a good transaction.

    KTM race shops are a little different. They are small and we really need them after the sale. If I'm buying one of their bikes I never quibble. They typically offer the bike at MSRP, drop dealer prep and destination, and throw in new hand guards, skid plate and a free first tune. It's a good trade. Everybody is happy and they take care of me long after. I think of it like supporting your pro shop.
    #16
  17. B.Curvin

    B.Curvin Feral Chia tamer

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    Just for clarity, that does NOT include taxes. Correct?
    #17
  18. filmfan

    filmfan Been here awhile

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    From the dealer's point of view all deals are cash, it doesn't matter if you come in with a wheelbarrow of bills from your mattress, or a cashiers check from your bank where you just signed up for a loan.

    If it's a finance deal, the dealer may be making more money if it's their financing, and because of that may be able to make you a better price on the bike. Whether or not it's a better deal for you depends on the details.
    #18
  19. spafxer

    spafxer Long timer

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    Not at all..

    Cost of the bike + large tank + hand gaurds + a few other things = $$$ I write one check or how much in cash..

    I thought a "shop" worked together to get the sale.. Even though they are different departments, they scratch each other's backs.
    #19
  20. BanjoBoy

    BanjoBoy Been here awhile

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    Get Out The Door prices from different dealers, buy cheapest bike. Simple? (Keep'in in mind sales tax & reg if'n yer deal'in with outta state dealers)
    Or do like us cheap bastards, and buy used 'n save big. :thumb
    #20