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Discussion in 'Hacks' started by davebig, Apr 29, 2012.
When in doubt gas it. Don’t stop.
Back in the early 70's as a young desert racer I had the chance to play ride with a young man who was beating all of the big names on his little 125cc DKW. He went on to later be called the greatest desert racer of all time. We came up on a small sand wash that was maybe 4 feet deep and 20 feet wide and then another 4 feet back up the other side. I flagged my buddy down to see if he would reveal how he took such obstacles at speed.
Me: "So, I stand up lean back and release all of the brakes just as I'm about to drop into the wash and then pre-load the suspension and release just as I hit the other side to "pop" out.......right?"
Mr. Fast guy: "Not me man, that shit scares the hell out of me I close my eyes and gas it!"
Always has and always will be an argument between 'balls' and technique. Somewhere in the middle is probably the right answer for most....LOL
its called WFO is the way to go...
The continuing saga of Cob's front forks. As far as I am concerned this is the LAST chapter of this damned debacle.
I do want to thank DaveBig for trying to help but in the end I put my bike back together with the stock telelever and the stock lower triple tree as its the only thing that works to my satisfaction. Dave sent me a telever that was modded to the same dimension as Jay's custom made lower triple tree, everything went together and worked well its just that the ball joint was at an extreme angle. So Dave sent me a telelever and lower triple tree both modded to his spec, it didn't work on my rig as the triple tree he sent was either off an R1100GS or a different year of GS then my 2001 R1150GS as it just didn't fit right and the front fender wouldn't bolt up.
So, I just said to HELL with it and bolted the stock telelver and lower triple tree back in place, wish I had taken Dana's advise in the beginning and just rode the rig with the stock front end and then decided if I wanted to do a modded front fork assembly. Long story short, the rig now sits level, the front end isn't dropping, stock fender clearance between the beak and the fender is now back, the only noticeable difference I have felt in the steering is at very low parking lot speeds, at regular road speeds I honestly can't see the need for the fork mod.
IN MY OPINION, if your hacking an R1150GS, do NOT use Jay's mod as it simply drops the front end of the rig way to much and when using Jay's lower triple tree and Dave's telelver made to match Jay's lower tree it rode well and steered well but the ball joint ended up being at an extreme angle.
If you use Dave's setup make sure it fits your bike, there are slight differences between the model years even if they are the same CC size. I spent a lot of money on Jay's front end mod and was not happy with it from day one, Jay refused to work with me when it came to being given one of his new design lower trees, he refused to believe me when I told him how much the front end had dropped, I can read a tape measure and have the photos to prove what I was telling him was true. When it comes to the front end of my rig I am extremely disappointed in how the front end mod Jay did to my rig worked and in his failure to work with me to make it right.
After installing the telelver and lower tree that Dave sent me the second time everything looked good until it was time to bolt the fender up, so I can't give an opinion on how it would have ridden or handled as I never rode the rig with his modded telelever and lower tree. That said based on how well his modded telelever made to match Jay's lower tree worked I am sure it would have worked and rode well.
That's my story and I am sticking to it, a lot of wasted money and wasted time to fix a problem that never really existed.
PS. Then again someday I might get pissed off enough to rework the angle on the telelever that Dave sent me that matched Jay's lower tree so the ball joint angle is correct and try again.
As Cob and I discussed earlier stock is worth a try and I wish, I had tried my rig without any mods as I have no idea how the BMW's steer without trail reduction. I just bought a used fender off fleabay and I will see what the issue is and modify as necessary.
Now you understand the frustraion I had with Jay too.. When things don't work or break all he does is yell and rant.. good luck Mr. Cobb
Fix it till it won't work any more.
I have suggested to many to try the stock front end first no matter what bike it is with a few exceptions. With the BMWs Most go with the trail reducer up front, some have us ship them one later and a few stick with stock. With all the discussion here on GS trail reducers we have yet to have an issue or complaint with one of ours.
I just want to make it clear for those who may not have picked up all the detail on what has been discussed here that the issues being presented are NOT related to the trail reducers made by Freedom Sidecars L.L.C. .
Here's the trail reducer Cob couldn't get to work with his front fender WTF, I suspect he was tired of fooling with that bike. He did a nice job of painting it !
I didn't do a thing to it set it on the fender and took a couple images , if you use one of these you may have to reroute some brake lines.DB
Glad it works for you, on my fender the two holes that are used to attach the fender underneath the the lower tree didn't line up and when the screws were forced into place the whole fender tilted toward the front of the tire, add to that the the two side braces when attached to the lower fork tubes had a substantial bend in them. Simply put there is a difference between the R1100 and R1150GS and how the fender attaches to each bike. If this works for you or someone else I am happy for you-them, it didn't work for me. That said, THANKS for trying to help with my rig.
YES the 1100 and 1150 are totally different. The 1200 is also different and the new 1200 water cooled bikes are different also. So...four models all take different trail reducers.
Without completely getting pissed off here, the thread reads about 1100 and 1150 and I know the difference, the trail reducing half of the modification Cob returned fits an 1150 fender just fine as illustrated in the images !!!!! The parts are on there way to one of Claudes customers who doesn't post here who read the thread and understands about changing steering axis !
Makes one fond for the airheads that used the same design for a quarter century...
Hmmmm ! The last customer was able to make the stuff work on his 1150gs and apparently likes the way it works as he's even offered to pay me for it !
But he's one of Claude's and Strokers customers also and we're all a little different !
For what it is worth, our original design did drop the front end a bit, we changed the design and did provide COB with a spacer to bring his unit up to our current design height at no charge. I do not know what COBs problem is with the front end, the trigonometry is clear our set up brings you to 1/8 of an inch higher then the bike totally stock which we have also confirmed by doing before and after messurements.
Also, as the suspension compresses the ball joint angle improves.
I believe COB is trying it stock at this point and his problem maybe that he isn't fond of nor does he ride it enough to relate to it very well, so it always represents a pain in the ass to him.None of us can fix attitude.
I can understand Mr. Cobb frustration. I have the same tree in my rig and it did drop the front end way more than I'd like. I did ride mine stock & moved it to the second nipple you guys welded on my lower Aframe.. Steered like a truck, Added your guys modified tree. Couldn't believe how much it dropped. But it steered better... When I called with questions on the stuff I purchased. All I got was a lot of flak and no answers.. Jay you really need to go to Sensitivity Training & customer Training it may help...
I have posted photos in this thread that clearly show how much your mod dropped the front of my bike, yes you did provide a spacer to me at no cost, the spacer as shown in the photos did NOT solve the problem and IN MY OPINION made an unsatisfactory situation even worse as it introduced another set of threads into an already stressed part. I am not the only person who feels this way. I tried to work with you all you did was tell me that there was no problem and that it was not possible for the front of my bike to drop the way it did, however my photos prove otherwise. As I have said so far I am satisfied with the rest of the build but I strongly recommend that others do NOT pay for your front end mod.
Jay, I have known you for ten years, have seen much of your work, know your products good points but have also seen much of its faults. When you built my rig many new and GOOD things were in the build and I'll stand by those things, that said your customer service leaves a lot to be desired and you are your own worst enemy when it comes to making things right and this is an opinion shared by just about anyone who has had any business dealing with you as shown by years of complaints on this and other web sites. Provide me with a modified front fork setup that works and I'll sing its praises until then I feel that I have been bilked out of a lot of money for a modified front fork setup that doesn't work. If you feel so strongly that the front fork setup you sold me is a viable product I'll sell it back to you at half of what you charged me for it then you can sell it to some other person and make even more money on it.