Dedone trail reduce mods1100/ 1150gs

Discussion in 'Hacks' started by davebig, Apr 29, 2012.

  1. claude

    claude Sidecar Jockey

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    There Were a lot of trail reducers made which did not have the raised rear on them. They reduced the trail but also lowered ground clearance due to the re-angled front fork assembly. This can b e aconcern with some bikes.

    The ones we make have the raised rear on them and are one piece machined billet.

    The trick is to get the dimensions right so the trail that was reduced is not gained back again when the rear of the trail reducer is raised. It is a numbers balancing act until it is right.

    Raked trees can also reduce ground clearance for similar and obvious reasons. Some bikes need fork extensions to get back th etrail reduction desired while maintaing bround clearance.

    Personally I much prefer a leading link but they are more costly. One must eigh cost vs value just like with many things. With alink you can make the trail anything you want and maintian or gain ground clearance as desired.

    Same is true with a center hub front end.

    The DeDome type modification is also excellent as it maitains the the stock fork angle thus no concerns arise regarding the upper fork pivot area on the GS bikes. This type of mod does not kick the fork forward but steepens the steering axis angle to acheive reduced trail...... Good system.

    Of course the various leading leg type assemblies out there are also an option. We built one of these for a V Strom which as totally made of machined parts. It worked well but for other reasons we decided not to persue the production of it. Not knocking the idea here as it does have merit.

    One other thing that has been done with bikes with convetional trees is to simply increase the offset between the fork tubes and the steering pivot point without changing the angle of the forks. This can be done with newly manufactured trees , modified trees or in some cased with braketry to move th eforks out in front of th eexisitng trees. Many way s to skin a cat and
    of course everyone who sells a certain product will say they have the best thing goings ..so it goes..lol.
    #41
  2. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

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    Thanks Claude , and my future will probably get a leading link eventually, this coming summer will give me more insight into what I need but if one looks at the Euro rigs and one wants a big front tire (traction and floatation) LL's are probably the best deal, hell center hub steering makes them seem simple.

    At any rate this thread is about economical trail reducing mods, that leave the front fork where we found it on telelever style BMW's 1100/50, make the steering allot easier and I rode my bike as a solo and it didn't have any funny idea's and would U-turn allot easier, but I would not recommend this for solo bikes .
    Another inmate has a neighbor with a 1150gsa rig his been building and needs a steering mod so I thought we would build a couple probably 3 some of our work.
    [​IMG]
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    Last but not least a great diagram in French but pretty much self explanatory, we're effectively changing the non existent BMW steering head angle.Thanks for looking if I can help PM me.DB
    [​IMG]
    #42
  3. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

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    In a bit of shameless self promotion, I did a telelever and ball joint mount for another NE hacker and neighbor of twintwin interesting and helpful Frenchman who got me started on this path.In the process I modified my extra stuff as I doubt my bike will ever go back to being a single,grabbed some pieces off fleabay. So I have two telelevers and one 1150 triple clamp ready to go, I have a 1100GS and RT, R ball joint mounts that can be finished quickly and will be willing to exchange pieces.thanks.DB
    [​IMG]
    The difference 2 short one stock.DB
    #43
  4. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

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    [​IMG]
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    Have managed to a peddle another set to another inmate and fledgling sidecarist, if anyone else needs trail reduction just ask.DB
    #44
  5. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

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    [​IMG]
    Stroker Dave's 1/2" shortened telelever and his impression without the chair, he's allot braver than I am I only rode mine 50-60ish to see how it tracked.It's exactly what I found when testing mine.

    "Guys, just finished installing modified A-arm/bridge and revamped crashbars. A-arm (1/2"shorter) by Dave and bridge by Tyson and I (1/2" longer). The 155 tire in photos just fits with 1/8" clearance on both sides. Took it for a ride with stock front wheel up to 100 mph, and let go on bars at high and low speed. No nasty habits any speed or cornering, and steering is a lot lighter and responsive. Makes it feel like the wheel base is shorter. Adjusted torque arm 1/2" longer which put final drive at stock angle to paralever. Definetly the hot set-up and looks pretty bad-ass with that knobby 155. Crash bars may be over the top. We'll see how it feels with the hack attached soon."
    Thanks Dave.DB
    #45
  6. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

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    It appears to me this is the best idea in economical trail modes, given what I've learned and heard lately reference here http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=915443&highlight=dedone&page=5 Post 62 shows a R1200 with only the lower triple clamp, note the angle imposed on the ball joint, the post below it is my rig.
    Here's what's in the upper triple clamp of R11,1150,12

    The #3 is a bushing in the upper triple clamp when you move the ball joint mount without shortening the telelever, that bushing is misaligned and wears out and may add to some instability in your fork.
    The inmate who currently owns the above R12 went back to his stock triple clamp ball joint mount(no trail reduction) he reports that they needed to be replaced.I'll leave him anonymous unless he chimes in.

    My point is that if you have one of these lower triple clamp trail reducers you may want to consider having someone shorten the telelever the same amount that the reducer offsets the ball joint. Your bike will steer and track better.

    My welder buddy and I have done several for R11/1150's we can have a go at one for you if you like, but it's not that tough a job to just do the Telelever(A frame) Claude, DMC or any competent sidecar installer should be able to help you out.
    I will if they won't, I just took a R1150 set (telelever and triple clamp) to the powder coater today that may go on my next sidecar project.Alongwith my front bumper from the deer strike.
    In the future we would be glad to just shorten the Telelever and with the r12's it would be allot easier to purchase a trail reducer and then shorten the telelever. DB
    #46
  7. angtlalaska

    angtlalaska Been here awhile

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    Dave,<?xml:namespace prefix = "o" ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
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    I have followed your posts on modifying the telelever on the 1100 and 1150. I wonder if the same mod can be made to the 08/09 1200GS as the design of the telelever is slightly different in the nose section. I stole this picture from GS Addict.

    http://s583.photobucket.com/user/GSAddict/media/R1200GS%20Parts/DSC06369_zpsa1f00d28.jpg.html?sort=9&o=56



    <o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    <?xml:namespace prefix = "v" ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" /><v:shapetype id=_x0000_t75 stroked="f" filled="f" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" o:preferrelative="t" o:spt="75" coordsize="21600,21600"><v:stroke joinstyle="miter"></v:stroke><v:formulas><v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"></v:f></v:formulas><v:path o:connecttype="rect" gradientshapeok="t" o:extrusionok="f"></v:path><o:lock aspectratio="t" v:ext="edit">I would wonder if the cut outs in the front would make it harder to shorten the frame. I am interested in your mod as I am looking at a CSM trail reducer.</o:lock></v:shapetype>
    #47
  8. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

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    [​IMG]

    Ok well I don't know why one couldn't, it's a matter of shortening the telelever the same amount the trail reducer offsets the ball joint which I believe is 7/8" .The one in the image appears to be aluminum so the welding will be more expensive but still doable, I'm going to meet a R12gs guy tomorrow for breakfast I'll see if they are aluminum.DB
    #48
  9. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

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    I haven't dragged this thread up in a bit but perhaps I should, I've heard of several inmates buying trail reducers from DMC and Claude and mis-aligning their forks in the name less trail easier steering :eek1:eek1
    If your moving your ball joint to the rear and pushing the fork forward consider shortening your A- Frame telelever and leaving the forks in the stock position.It works well . 40k miles and an 8pt buck on mine and no issues.

    Here's and telele from an R12gs the one in the last post.We made a slip fit pin about .001 smaller and slid it in and tig welded the ends. We moved the ball joint placement back almost an inch to work with a trail reducer provided by Claude at Freedom sidecars.
    [​IMG]
    The spot was center of original ball joint mount.
    [​IMG]
    One bonus these aluminum guys don't need to come apart and be powder coated.

    Here comes the pitch buy whosoever trail reducer you like ! I'll happily shorten your Telelever reasonably, your forks will be where BMW put them and not punishing the bushing in the upper clamp.DB
    #49
  10. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

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    In case you haven't been paying attention, trail reduction diagram.
    [​IMG]
    #50
  11. Stroker

    Stroker motorcycle traveler

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    Dave, nice job on the 1200 A-arm modification. It's curious that the boss that is made into the BMW part seems to easily facilitate moving the location once the old hole is plugged. Merry Christmas...hope ya'll been good!
    #51
  12. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

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    Thanks Dave, I'm reasonably sure that BMW uses the same casting for multiple models ( RT&GS) but moves hole about 1/2" inch in their machining process. But now where off to water boxers and things are probably different again.
    Did you get a chance to look at the waterboxer at Claudes ? It wasn't my cup of tea but the SOB had power. We're team obsolete now !
    #52
  13. Elizabeth Muir

    Elizabeth Muir Adventurer

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    DB,
    I have been following the on going discussions relative to reducing trail.
    Modified triple clams, Dedone solution, and Leading links.
    I am now the owner of a GSA "lowered" water boxer. Originally I was going to change the set up I have over to the new bike. But I have to tell you that the new bike is one of the easiest bikes to ride that I've had. The test for me is how easy one can deal with slow in town riding, parking, and maneuvering. All of the above is to say that I will stay with my red and white GS rig for a while longer, while researching the next chair for the water boxer.
    I thank you and every one who has contributed to this on going topic.
    Merry Christmas.
    #53
  14. angtlalaska

    angtlalaska Been here awhile

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    DB,

    I hope I am getting a late Christmas present :clap Really. I have been following all of the discussions on front end mods and appreciate the input from so many who have years of experience to help this n00b become a sidecarist. My CSM tub is at Claude's getting a few mods for Alaska riding. Hopefully I will leave the ice box in early February and Claude will have shipped the car to San Pedro by then. Since I am a pre-n00b, Strong Bad has offered to help with the assembly and the plan is to start with taking out the internal spacer in the front shock to raise it up 1" (from the factory lower position) then add the Stroker front wheel. SB will then compare with his rig and then we will add Claude's new trail reducer and the modified shortened telelever while playing with the sway bar. SB will then re-evaluate. We will play with the variables including potentially a spacer on the top of the shock and different springs on the bike shocks until we, SB can get it the best it can be without replacing the whole front end. The plan is to leave the rig in San Pedro until early June then head up to Alaska stopping off at Boxer Metal's place for some expert adjustment. While in San Pedro if someone wants to drive the rig to see how the package works I am up for that. BTW, the tug is a factory lowered 2009 R1200GS modified with a 2010 GSA tank and a 2013 GSA enduro transmission.

    Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.
    #54
  15. Strong Bad

    Strong Bad n00balicious

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    A-Alaska is a detail kinda guy. I'm looking forward to working with him getting his new rig sorted.
    #55
  16. davebig

    davebig Another Angry Hun !

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    I just finished emailing him thinking exactly the same thing. not a total fiscal conservative and not just throwing tons of money at it either.DB
    #56
  17. Boxer Metal

    Boxer Metal Mad Scientist

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    Just curious what is being done to remove stress on the alloy part after welding it?
    #57
  18. robtg

    robtg Been here awhile

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    I don't think it is a matter of stress but the fact that it is annealed dead soft during welding. Based on my perception of what I have seen, But I could be wrong.
    #58
  19. Boxer Metal

    Boxer Metal Mad Scientist

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    So not a factor on outside of the welds if the correct filler rod is being used?
    #59
  20. Strong Bad

    Strong Bad n00balicious

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    If concerned, why not throw it in your oven overnight? That will "heat treat" it. To heat treat aluminum, it doesn't need to get real hot. Another term for it is "artificially aged".
    #60