Defensive spray

Discussion in 'Americas' started by eblack, Jun 16, 2013.

  1. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    thanks ... was thinking of bringing into Canada, Springfield Armory M6 Scout .22 Hornet/.410 .. packs real small.

    .22 Hornet shells are custom loaded to produce 650+ ft lb energy. same for .410 shells, custom sized barrel loaded to 1250+ ft lb range.

    a big ole can of bear spray purchased in Canada seems to be the best choice.
    #21
  2. Spaggy

    Spaggy Long timer

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    Don't bring a gun, you'll have to donate it to the government and go home. I know big game hunters can bring in a rifle, but the storage regulations here would make it impossible to do it on a bike. Besides, a .22 won't even get a bears attention and a .410 will just piss him off. Bear spray and a clean camp is the way to go.
    #22
  3. bobframe

    bobframe Been here awhile

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    I have friends who are full time fishing guides in remote areas of Wyoming that are home to Black Bears and Grizzlies. They recommend bear spray.

    Remember, your aim with spray is not critical because the spray can shoots a "cone" of spray. With a firearm, your aim is everything. So, how good is your aim with a roaring, foaming-at-the-mouth thousand pound mass of muscle, claws and teeth is three seconds from ripping your face off? Seriously, are you that cool?

    And if you are in the middle of a bear attack, just getting your hand on the spray can's trigger may discourage the bear. You may spray yourself too, but that beats the hell out of being mauled.

    I'll take spray over a gun every time.
    #23
  4. GS Addict

    GS Addict Pepperfool

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    +1 and you won't get an invite to come back.
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  5. H96669

    H96669 A proud pragmatist.

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    Lots of bears where I live. Sure the spray is around and so are other means I may sometimes leave by the door.:evil

    What I like best is the airhorn, if just to see them bears run away. Works well on all sorts of critters, including the neighbor's dogs and truckers on the jakes in front of my house at 06.00AM.:rofl

    What's good about the airhorn is that you can clear the area even if you haven't seen any bears yet. And also in case you get in trouble, you can summon help with them. SOS is....:ear No worries I know what it is, loud enough at work...!:rofl

    Personal defense with an airhorn??? Release that within a few inches of someone's face or ears.......they'll stop what they are doing.:lol3
    #25
  6. GS Addict

    GS Addict Pepperfool

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    Great idea! thanks
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  7. High Country Herb

    High Country Herb Adventure Connoiseur

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    Defensive Spray and Bear Spray are pretty much the same thing, the only difference is the label. In Canada, the label must say "Bear Spray" to be legal. The cans meant for humans are not.

    Statistically, the spray works better than a gun. Some of that may be due to poor shot placement by gun owners, but a .44 mag does not always penetrate a bear's fat layer. Those bears are tough, but even they don't like the sensation on the pepper spray.
    #27
  8. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    any long gun I bring will be legally brought into Canada with all the paperwork. that .22 hornet is packing magnum level energy.

    .410 with a 240 grain slug packs serious punch ...
    but big ole can of bear spray is what's most practical.
    #28
  9. Chat Lunatique

    Chat Lunatique aka El Gato Loco

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    As a gunsmith who lived in the north, I can say with confidence that you are bringing a knife to a gunfight. Muzzle energy levels are NOT anywhere near adequate for griz :rofl. Don't kid yourself, take the good advice on sprays or horns. Just sayin'
    #29
  10. Spirit_Rider

    Spirit_Rider Been here awhile

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    [​IMG]
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  11. jimmex

    jimmex Guero con moto

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    :rofl
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  12. H96669

    H96669 A proud pragmatist.

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    Takes very little "bear spray" to incapacitate a human. Remember that if you want to release it at a charging bear on a windy day.You may just be the one running blind.:D

    Yes I was slightly exposed....sure didn't like it.:eek1 Not gonna help if you are in your tent smelling of Stagg Chili....bacon or KD farts and the bear comes sniffing around.:evil
    #32
  13. High Country Herb

    High Country Herb Adventure Connoiseur

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    I have to agree with billdonna. The .22 mag is similar to a firecracker where grizzlys are concerned, and a .410 with a slug will not stop them either. You would need a well placed shot with a 12 gauge slug, .454 Casull pistol, or minimum 30-06 rifle. Most guides in Alaska carry .458 Lott, .300 Win Mag, or the like, which just isn't practical for motorcycling through Canada.

    I would just avoid having anything aromatic in camp, and carry bear spray. If I were really ambitious, I would ship my gun to AK, and pick it up when I crossed the border, then ship it home before heading back into Canada.
    #33
  14. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    a common misconception that all .410 slugs are underpowered. 375 grn slug putting out 1,800 ft lb energy or about same as .454 Casull .. http://www.hoeningbigboresouth.com/Big410Ballistics.html note barrel has to be custom fitted to slug with choke machined out. not all actions/barrels are suited for high powered .410 rounds.

    .22 hornet loaded with lill gun and 53grn bullet achieves .44 magnum level power.
    Springfield M6 Scout was specifically chosen for super compact breakdown size and strength of action. most importantly be legal to bring into Canada.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [SIZE=+1] HBBS 410 Uncrimped Heavy Load 375 gr Slug, BC = 0.214, 100yd. zero [/SIZE]


    <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td>[​IMG]</td> <td>

    <table border="1" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" width="100%"> <tbody> <tr> <td> Range (yards)</td> <td>
    Muzzle
    </td> <td>
    50
    </td> <td>
    100
    </td> <td>
    200
    </td></tr> <tr> <td> Velocity (fps)</td> <td>
    1500​
    </td> <td>
    1366​
    </td> <td>
    1249
    </td> <td>
    1078​
    </td></tr> <tr> <td> Energy (ft.-lb.)</td> <td>
    1873​
    </td> <td>
    1553​
    </td> <td>
    1298
    </td> <td>
    967​
    </td></tr> <tr> <td> Trajectory (inches)</td> <td>
    -1.5​
    </td> <td>
    1.6​
    </td> <td>
    0
    </td> <td>
    -20.8
    </td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>
    #34
  15. High Country Herb

    High Country Herb Adventure Connoiseur

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    Pretty impressive numbers.

    If you are set on firearms for defense (I'm a gun guy, so I get it) my money would be on the slugs in an auto loading gun. Shot placement will be difficult in an emergency situation. Incapacitating one leg at a time until you have taken out two or three will at least stop the charge. Keep in mind, you will have to process the carcass according to Alaskan regs:

    http://www.adn.com/2009/08/13/897940/twig-snap-alerts-dog-walker-to.html

    As a mental exercise, imagine standing on the railroad tracks, trying to stop an oncoming train by shooting off the wheels one by one with a very large handgun. :lol3 Chances are, you will not encounter an angry bear, so I wouldn't worry too much.
    #35
  16. Chat Lunatique

    Chat Lunatique aka El Gato Loco

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    Quote : The greatest change is that the commercial model has a barrel length of 18.25 inches (46.4 cm) instead of the 14 inches (36 cm) barrel length of the USAF version.

    Best of luck to ya at the border! Minimum 18.5" barrel length and 26" minimum overall to be legal in Canada. And yes, they will check it.
    #36
  17. High Country Herb

    High Country Herb Adventure Connoiseur

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    Is it shotguns and rimfire (.22) only in Canada, or are hunting rifles such as 30-06 also allowed? What about semi-automatic deer rifles with small magazines of say 4 shots? I assume there is some sort of paperwork that must be completed prior to entering your country?

    A Browning BAR chambered in 30-06 or 300 Win Mag, shortened to about 26.5" would be pretty good for hunting in Alaska, yet easily carried on a motorcycle.
    #37
  18. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    crap!!! M6 barrel is 18.25in .. overall length is 32in
    looks like back to the drawing board .. was really happy with loads I'd been working up too...
    #38
  19. H96669

    H96669 A proud pragmatist.

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    I see...not many familiar with the Canadian gun laws. This BTW is legal in Canada, a little more of a sting than a Hornet but never mind the accuracy.:wink:

    http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?732700-Grizzly-s-back-in-stock!

    As for the paperwork, sure it is possible to bring a gun into Canada. Just remember that it is at the full discretion of the CBSA agents if they let you into the country or not.Paperwork or not, the real test will be at the border.:wink:
    #39
  20. GP640

    GP640 Long timer

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    Remember that the National parks require firearms to be disassembled and locked away.
    No matter what the problem, use or display of a firearm in a National Park will
    bring unwanted issues.
    Also of note, a firearm with ammunition on it e.g. one of those buttstock shell
    holders is considered loaded.
    #40