Delivery Announcement: INGRID is here

Discussion in 'Hacks' started by Abenteuerfahrer, Mar 4, 2009.

  1. mikepa

    mikepa SideCzarist

    Joined:
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    Oddometer:
    306
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    The tub's Brembo caliper is a smaller caliper than the one on the bike. If the caliper and rotor was the same, it would probably just lock up. Since the caliper is smaller, the master cylinder is not the same as the OEM rear brake caliper on the tub (also from Brembo I think). My point, the calipers are not the same, and the master cylinders are not either, so it's not surprising that there are some differences.

    Best,
    #81
  2. Abenteuerfahrer

    Abenteuerfahrer Deaf on Wheels

    Joined:
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    I may have over reacted a bit and apologize if I rubbed anyone the wrong way...in my comments about it being the wrong part!

    MMikepa your explanation made sense....Litewait thanks for your input too! It was necessary in order to not interfere with the Tugs brake to turn down the sidecars master cylinder plunger rod to almost the end of the thread/lock nut and flushing about 70 mls of fluid, it finally started to compress.

    Then the Banjo bolt aluminum washers started leaking under strong foot pressure. Replaced them with proper copper washers..presto no leak:clap

    Test riding indicated a pull to the right when applying the rear brake. Applying the front and rear at the same time gave a reasonable straight stop. Rear braking will always pull the Tub to the right. If I slam on the rear brake I guess the Tubs brake will prevail over the Tug...so right it goes unless I apply the front to correct, eh?

    Aluminum washers at Banjo bolt...

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    Copper washers...torqued to 24 nm...

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    Notice how close and how much thread is left after adjusting and not overriding the Tugs master cylinder plunger rod..

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    Thanks again guys...am a happy Man..:freaky Cheers..
    #82
  3. mikepa

    mikepa SideCzarist

    Joined:
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    Oddometer:
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    Hi 'Farher -

    I was down at Dauntless today delivering some final parts for my rig, and chatted with Jay about your problem. Didn't learn anything that I didn't already consider, glad that you got your brake sorted out on your own.

    FWIW, I learned to drive sidecars on Ural Gear-Ups. Of course, they have a (double-shoe drum) sidecar brake that is mechanically linked to the tug's rear brake pedal and its (double-shoe drum) brake. This set-up actually works pretty well, as each drum brake has a fairly easy-to-tweak threaded adjuster on the brake rod, and the drum brakes are so ineffective anyway, it's pretty easy to get them "balanced" (in the case of Ural drum brakes, ABS means it's Almost a Braking System).

    My first BMW rig (UberHack 1.0, R12GS/EZS) did not have a sidecar brake, as I wanted simplicity above all, and truth be told, I never missed not having a brake on the tub, but, that may be a sort of self-fulfulling prophecy as I didn't have a brake on the tub.

    My my second BMW rig (U'Hack 2.0, R11.5GSA/Ural), I sort of let Jay work his salesmanship and decided to have them install a brake on the tub, but for interchangeability, I had a stock BMW OEM (re-branded from Brembo) master cylinder and caliper installed, so in my case, both master cylinders, calipers and rotors were the same. Jay forwarned me that this would be way more disc than I needed out there, but he was able to adjust the actuator rods (as you have done) to get a reasonable balance. However, as you have also experienced, the banjo bolt on the tub's caliper started leaking on my TdF ride, and I just sort of let it go, since I wasn't all that used to having a sidecar brake anyway. That rig is still on the water somewhere between Jamaica and Houston, so I haven't had the chance to sort things out with the brake, but at this point, I think I'll just take it off.

    On the thrid BMW rig (U'Hack 3.0 - another R11.5GSA/Ural, that Dauntless is just finishing up) based on the immediate failure with U'Hack 2.0's sidecar brake, I decided against a sidecar brake.

    So, though other sidecar pilots I know and respect have the opposite opinion, I personally don't feel I give up any performance or safety by NOT having a sidecar brake, and it makes maintenance and servicing simpler to not have yet another brake system to deal with, and most importantly, "balance". I know a sidecar brake is way cool for doing right-hand sidecar tricks in parking lots, but, as you have found, unless properly adjusted, they do affect the handling of your rig when applied, and it's a fine art to balance the force of the tug's rear brake and that of the tub's when the two are linked.

    On option that I know some pilots like, have the tub's brake on a separate but adjacent pedal, so that by rotating your foot, you can actuate one, both, or the other.

    So, to make a long reply even longer :1drink , the trick will be to tweak that threaded adjuster on the tub's master cylinder so that the whole rig tracks straight when both front and rear brakes are applied, as unless you're off-pavement on a steep descent, you should always be using all brakes to slow or stop - yes? Since we've already established that the tub is bascially a rigid pendulum, you can see the problem, the amount of braking action you want is going to depend somewhat on how much weight you have out there, an empty tub vs. one with a passenger and all your road gear, it's going to make a difference, as you'll want less brake with less weight/empty, and more with more weight/full. The good news, since they are disc brakes, and not drum, once you get the correct "balance" acheived, it will stay that way (as opposed to continually having to make adjustments on rigs, like the Urals, with drum brakes).

    A lot to digest there, but it comes down to finessing the "throw" on the tub's master cylinder, and setting up for empty or fully loaded.

    More that I wanted to deal with, so I'm punting and taking the easy way out, no brake. The servo-assisted disc brakes on the later generation Beemers as confidence-inspiring, two fingers can scrub speed in a big hurry.

    Best,
    #83
  4. hondachopper

    hondachopper Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Oddometer:
    85
    Humm...Sounds like pitching the whole thing and going without brakes on the tub might be a better way to go??? Less of a hassle as Mikepa pointed out...

    Hondachopper
    #84
  5. tony the tiger

    tony the tiger Long timer

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    :nod
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    Not my work *built by Bob Fleischer* - but it's my rig :thumb mechanically linked to allow proportional application with the rear brake, or separate "sidecar only" braking.
    I don't use it much like that, though...
    #85
  6. Abenteuerfahrer

    Abenteuerfahrer Deaf on Wheels

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    Tony the Tiger....I did have your version in mind when I ordered the systems from Jay, but thought that less appendages on the frame would be the way to go. Time will tell! Should I find it cumbersome and field unfriendly..I'll disconnect it and go the spartan Mikepa way!

    Hondachopper...I'll give it a go for a while. The braking of a heavily ladden Tub should be ok....lightly ladden seems to be the problem. Wish that one could change the brakes response the same way one could do with HPA shocks..just turn the knob for high or low preload (light/strong braking). Oh, well...!
    #86
  7. gregbenner

    gregbenner Long timer

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    1,408
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    Oceanside, Ca
    First, that is one incredible looking rig. Makes me want to "hack my GS":D

    I have a DL1000 VStrom with a Ural tub (also built by Jay a couple years ago). I too have had issues trying to "balance" the tub brake.

    During a period when I had it disconnected I had the only real panic stop ever, going maybe 35 mph. Grabbed front and rear brakes HARD. The entire rig started to pivot to the left such that I had to release the brakes a bit:eek1

    The truck was able to get out of my way... but scared the bejeesus out of me (and Connie).

    Curiously, I seem to have no balance issues with my Goldwing/Hannigan rig....is this because it is so heavy?:ear

    When you experienced guys (Mike, Claude, etc) say you are satisfied with no tub brake, I wonder if I did something wrong, or it something not adjusted right? (don't want to hijack this thread...but it seemed on point).
    #87
  8. RedMenace

    RedMenace Adventure Sidecar

    Joined:
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    It is normal for the bike to want to pivot when you brake hard(no sidecar brake) On a wide, short wheelbase rig this will be most pronounced, but they will all do that to some degree. The trick is to correct by steering towards the sidecar and do not lock up that front brake! More rear brake will tend to drag it straight but the main thing is steer to correct for the yaw and don't slide the front tire. This is one of the exercises we practice in the S/TEP class.

    [​IMG]
    #88
  9. buddha

    buddha buried in the sand...

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2006
    Oddometer:
    706
    Location:
    Clinton, NC
    Abenteuerfahrer - Great looking rig! I want to do this exact same setup some day. PM me when you get it done and lets go for a ride, or even if you just need some help with something. I'm just up the road from you in Clinton.
    #89
  10. Abenteuerfahrer

    Abenteuerfahrer Deaf on Wheels

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    A few more things were in order to make access easier for changing the top bolt of the sidecar shock.

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    OUCH....!!

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    8mm....3/8" ?....pretty heavy GRP

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    Tool acess for removing upper shock bolt..

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    Yet to be painted access knob..

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    Cap on the inside....

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    #90
  11. Abenteuerfahrer

    Abenteuerfahrer Deaf on Wheels

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    First and foremost I would like to thank those who have been helpful being vocal and supportive....this goes greatly to Mikepa, Claude, Litewait, Ihop, Beemerchef, RedMenace and of course Jay Giese of Dauntless Motors. Also to many others I thank them in helping me see the light at the end of the tunnel regarding sidecars. You all surely are a fine group.


    INGRID IS DONE



    Only a few minor things need to be done: cover for the electrical cables that cross to the sidecar; cover for some of the frames; etc.

    Here she is...........


    :clap :freaky :rofl :norton :D :1drink :rilla :super

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    Cheers......see you on the road.....:clap
    #91
  12. deafPOPEYE

    deafPOPEYE Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2008
    Oddometer:
    25
    Location:
    Louisville, Ky
    Move over Hummer! Abenteuerfehrer with a BEAUTY! Ride under sun and moon! Love the colors. Yours can qualify for off road soap box derby!! Wayyy Goooo! See you on the road! Good work! ENJOY!!!!:freaky
    #92
  13. buddha

    buddha buried in the sand...

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2006
    Oddometer:
    706
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    Clinton, NC
    Beautiful!
    #93
  14. brosanc

    brosanc WormGuy

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
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    48
    Location:
    Hillsborough, North Carolina
    Great looking unit Elmer ! I look forward to seeing you ( I mean the SC) on the road. BTW, I will be in your neighborhood on my new sidecar Saturday May 8. I will pm you with details, would like to get together if possible !

    brian
    #94
  15. tony the tiger

    tony the tiger Long timer

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    woot!
    Now go mess her hair up some! :1drink





    :lol3
    #95
  16. Abenteuerfahrer

    Abenteuerfahrer Deaf on Wheels

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    Hi all...thanks for the compliments.

    I might return and give you another step-by-step picture instruction if I decide to install this very $$$$ precision machined gizmo.

    The Trail Reducer....:huh

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    Jay also provides a tool for removing the b-i-g... 46mm Telelever ball joint screw/nut....aarrgggg!!!! Brute strength with torch like heat required to remove this thingy..aarrggghhhhh...Next time.

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    So far I have traveled a bit without it and don't mind the heavy steering when turning..builds upper chest muscles and expands my bicepts..BUT do I want to do that for 15,000 miles?? As I have read it's like powersteering(60% improvement)...supposed to lessen some of the slow speed shakes; less abrupt sensitive steering at higher speeds! So what do you all think..must have?? Must do...:eek1

    Cheers...
    #96
  17. pennymiler

    pennymiler Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Oddometer:
    19
    Wow, wow! What a beaut with those colors!

    What remains to be seen is seeing the frau sitting in the tub. Has she ridden it yet?

    I read the whole dialogue among your gents trying to figger out obstacles that stood in the way and the progress the abenteuerfahrer achieved!

    What is the ETD?

    Would love to ride down to inspect in live and to give your guys the proper sendoff for the northern frontier! Mebbe I can arrange a posse to do that?
    #97
  18. mikepa

    mikepa SideCzarist

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    Location:
    Seattle, WA in the Great Pacific NorthWET (USA)
    Hola 'Fahrer -

    Echoing others, way cool rig, a real testament to your vision, not inconsiderable skills as a painter, fabricator and general-purpose wrench. Good on ya'!

    If you follow-through on the ride to Dead Horse, make sure you plan on a layover in the Seattle area, we'll keep the lights on for you.

    Having never driven a rig without a trail reducer, I can't comment to not having one. Theoretically, installing one may increase low-speed head shake, but you may find the reduced overall steering effort a big plus. Hit some twisty roads with your lovely bride and all your gear in the tub (I'm doing California 299, 36, 96 and 3 as I send this reply) and you'll find you may have a handful.

    Best,
    #98
  19. Abenteuerfahrer

    Abenteuerfahrer Deaf on Wheels

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    Ah..Pennymiler...good to hear from you. Oh, Ja..die Gespannfrau likes it, gravel, dirt, mud, sand and alllllllll.

    ETD should be sometime end of May or beginning first week of June, however I do have plan "B"(great white Eastern North..again..!) if things don't materialize with plan "A". Before leaving for either plan "A" or "B" I might come up north for a good fully laden shakedown. Then you guys can gawk at this Gespann.

    Cheers.....
    #99
  20. Abenteuerfahrer

    Abenteuerfahrer Deaf on Wheels

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    Hi all...

    After 500+ miles with the OEM fork bridge. Steering was of no concern on straightways but constant dodging of twisties, dirt roads, sand..gravel was something left to be desired. After about 300 miles I could feel the tension in my biceps and chest muscles. Good workout for those who don't mind and after 15,000 miles one might have the chest and arms of Arnold Schwarzenegger..:huh SO, I decided to try the $$$$ Dauntless fork bridge (trail reducer).

    :1drink

    Jacked up Bike using sub-frame as jacking point
    Removed the brake calipers on both sides.
    Removed wheel
    Removed splash fender

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    Removed upper Hex nuts atop stanchion

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    Remove top nut of Telelever ball joint

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    Unclamp 4 bolts holding fork bridge to fork tube.
    Twist and slide out Tube downwards

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    Now I apologize that I totally forgot to resume taking pictures of the process in removing and adding the rest..

    Removing the 46 mm ball joint was a no go in a simple garage, even with the tool provided by Dauntless. It was simply afixed to the fork brace like it was welded shut. Had to hunt for large shop that serves trucks. Found one who was willing to remove the ball joint using an impact compressed air wrench. It took about 260 nm to remove it. Transferred the ball joint to the new brace and fastened it down with red locktite. Hand wrestled it to 200+ nm...?????
    :evil

    OEM Fork Bridge(left)...new Dauntless Fork Bridge(trail reducer) on right
    Notice the 2.5" further back ball joint hole..

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    Reversed the entire set up and this is how it looks with the new trail reducer..

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    Then came the bleeding of the front brakes. The 2005 1200GS came with ABS/servo brakes and the bleeding is supposed to be done with a BMW's computerized diagnostic system, however, we found it to be really easy to bleed the front brakes via a simple set up. It was once described here on ADVrider but cannot track it at this time. Everything was put back and tightened, that means the wheel and brakes as well. Fork bridge clamps were fastened last when the bike was firmly planted on the ground.

    Also again got carried away and forgot to take pictures of the entire procedure..sorry...but here is the basic procedure.

    Fuel tank was removed.
    The front wheel circuit reservoir..front primary circuit was located and traced to the front brakes. (BMW CD DVD)
    A filling adapter funnel (happen to have a BMW OEM funnel with screw on rigid hose that was screwed directly on the front wheel filling reservoir). You can make your own using O-ring as a seal.

    Start with one brake caliper at a time.
    Attach clear hose to the chosen side bleed screw....
    fill the funnel with brake fluid.....
    crack open the bleed screw....
    turn bike power on.
    You will immediately notice that the servos are pumping the fluid thru the front system; watch for air coming out of the clear hose and close bleed screw when no more air is visible.
    Shut off bike.
    Do the same for the next brake caliper.

    MONITOR BRAKE FLUID LEVEL IN FUNNEL. Better to fill it up good.

    Then do the bleeding routine one more time for both calipers..total 4 times.

    With the servos pumping the fliud for you I'd say its even easier than bleeding normal brakes.:clap :wink:

    Conclusion Test ride:

    Rode all over town; to my favorite coffe shop...; light traffic...heavy traffic...dirt roads...Interstates...PARKIng Lots..

    Really this is an awakening. Steering is so light,,about 60% less effort. I can do rain dances on the parking lot..going in tight circles without effort...she steers straight on the Interstates...is way too easy to steer on the offroads. All this because I raked my forks..:a la chopper:. Yes, I must admit the front end did drop a bit. Corrected it by adding some pre-load to the front shock springs. Other than that she's a pleasure to ride...oh, man Car be gone??? Wooooo...Thanks Mikepa for insisting I try:norton