Diabolical Rally - 10 questions

Discussion in 'Racing' started by HogWild, May 23, 2013.

  1. brent tex

    brent tex Been here awhile

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    Just saw this thread, Scott I know you will come up with a diabollical roadbook rally wherever it is going to be held. Im excited and Im in. A few points to ponder.
    For us eastcoasters in particular 4,5 or 6 day event will be optimal. (remember we have to travel cross country twice)
    Hotels are nice at the end of a hard day, but maybe a bivouac one or two nights just to get the true feeling of a dakar style multi-day rally.
    Terrain, Im not really concerned about, Ive ridden your roadbooks and they are all fantastic. You would probably draw more competitors if the route is bigger bike friendly or if you cant help yourself , throw in an optional technical section for those interested.
    Damn youve got me all excited.
    #21
  2. homerj

    homerj 742 Evergreen Terrace

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    1. How many days of racing would you like? Remember there’s also a registration/tech day ahead of the first race day, and probably a half day after the final race day for awards.
    4 days: getting time off work isn't easy

    2. How many hours of racing per day (assuming moderate to extremely challenging terrain)?
    6-8 of racing terrain, maybe another hour of liason back to bivvy

    3. How difficult should the navigation be? Different difficulty on each day?
    Mix it up but it should never be terribly easy.
    4. How difficult should the terrain be? Different on each day?
    It should be passable by a proper rally bike

    5. Would you like zero, one, or two optional short non-timed “practice” stages to get used to the roadbooks, unique navigation, and unique terrain in the area? Would you come one or two days early to do the practice stage(s)?
    I wouldn't want any extra days, but make them available if enough people do make it available to them :dunno
    6. Would you like to camp in a bivouac, Dakar style, or pay for hotel rooms a ways away from the start/finish?
    Bivvy

    7. Are paved liaison sections a major pain, or a minor inconvenience? How far is too far if you have a morning and evening paved liaison?
    minor inconvenience: more than an hour of liason isn't much fun

    8. Which would you prefer:
    ...a. Moving bivouac (i.e. Dakar and NORRA Mexican 1000, more liaisons, more taco stands).
    ...b. Fixed bivouac (stationary camp, no need for chase crew, no long drive back to the border after you're done).
    As others have said either fixed or maybe move it once. Setting up camp after riding 9+hrs blows

    9. Would you be willing to pay 3 times more if it was in Western USA instead of Northern Mexico?
    That depends on the final reg fee. $1500 to race in the US? Sure, $4500? Not so much.
    #22
  3. neduro

    neduro Addict Super Moderator

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    Exciting!

    FWIW, I'm doing the Baja rally because you made the roadbooks, I have great faith in your judgment.

    #23
  4. Seth S

    Seth S Will _____ for _____

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    It sounds good right now. Dates and costs will have to be evaluated when the time comes. It would certainely be easier to shipping everything to another country.
    #24
  5. Mike_MRS

    Mike_MRS Been here awhile

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    As a relatively new rally guy:

    6 days
    no practice
    day one is a prologue of say, 30-50 miles to sort out the starting order for the rally proper
    focus on navigation not speed
    bivuouac mainly with a hotel in the the middle
    moving bivuouac
    tough as in distance rather than terrain, but navigation designed to prevent full throttle - having said that, some decent fast bits if there is open terrain
    #25
  6. HogWild

    HogWild Scott Whitney

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    Scotty B is doing all his own roadbooks for the Baja Rally, using Rally Navigator. My job at that race is to follow everyone's SPOTs for safety, and verify everyone stayed on the course by checking their recorded GPS tracks at the finish.

    I will be doing all the roadbooks for Diabolical. Due to the terrain, they will be a bit different than most of my previous roadbooks. At the moment, the way the terrain looks, they could be 30% to 50% HP! That's partly why I want to provide a practice stage. This particular HP stuff may be a new type of challenge for some.
    #26
  7. Bicycle Phil

    Bicycle Phil Been here awhile

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    Ahhhh....now I know why its called the Diabolical Rally :evil


    the Oracle HogWild has spoken and the minions are gathering.....


    I'm in!
    #27
  8. Goofy1

    Goofy1 Been here awhile

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    Not too far off topic BUT if you need ground support I'd like to volunteer. I'm way too old and slow to even want to race it. :D
    #28
  9. lastplace

    lastplace Been here awhile

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    My preferences below, but please do what it takes. I'll be there.

    1. 5 days racing. Please give me lots of notice so that I can get the time off. I really wish I could spend more time. If it were not for my time constraints, I'd say 20 days of racing or more.
    2. 10-24. Everyone should have to race in the dark, so start some stages at 3AM.
    3. Not impossible.
    4. Mix easy rest sections with short hard technical challenges.
    5. I wouldn't be able to come early.
    6. Tent no more than 10 feet from my bike. Preferably out in the desert. No complications like hotels or a town.
    7. Long stupid mind-numbing liaisons are part of rally racing.
    8. Does not matter. Whatever works best for you.
    9. I'd rather not.
    10. Who cares? Do it right and the right people will come.

    Scott, you make the best routes I've ever ridden, even if they sometimes frustrate the hell out of me. This will be the ride of a lifetime. Please don't dumb it down. Participants should know that they've been on a real rally.

    fun fun
    Charlie
    #29
  10. HogWild

    HogWild Scott Whitney

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    Charlie, it won't get dumbed down.

    The first year we do have to be a bit careful not to overdo the difficulty and complexity. I tend to bite off more than is reasonable, and learn the hard way when we get back from many preruns well after dark. I know in this desert I can wipe everyone out with a 100 mile stage that is as smooth as a baby’s butt! In prerunning, a 55 mile stage took the better part of a day and destroyed one motor. Another day we did 220 miles in a car, had an hour fish taco lunch break, and finished the route and dinner before the sun went down. It’s a little hard to judge how it will go until you guys get out there.

    I have one stage in mind that has a 2 page roadbook that would take all day to ride. Skilton said it would be too gnarly for the cars. But the real challenge is that it goes right through an incredible protected nature preserve. So, . . . I’m going to do everything I can to make that one happen. If not the first year, then possibly the second! Maybe the cars can do a different route that day, or cut it in half for them?

    Can you bring a fire engine siren, and kick it off in the bivouac at 2:00am each morning, just for the fun of it?
    #30
  11. drc42

    drc42 Rally Dreamer

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    +1 on Charlie's early notice comment. I also need a lot of notice to schedule time off work. Also agree on camping next to the bike. In Mex last year i spent too much time just trying to locate my gear and hotel. If (when) I roll into the bivouac late at night want to be able to find my crap!

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    #31
  12. Seth S

    Seth S Will _____ for _____

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    It just gets curiouser and curiouser.

    Sent from my Portable black hole circling a smalll binary nebula in the Cartwheel Galaxy.
    #32
  13. HogWild

    HogWild Scott Whitney

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    We camped out there on the last prerun. While setting up camp, a big scorpion ran out from under my stuff. The next day a local showed me a baby rattlesnake he had just killed near the bivouac area. Fortunately we slept well off the ground in the prerun support rig!

    [​IMG]
    #33
  14. J Lewis

    J Lewis Numb Nuts

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    Scott,

    Make it 4 the first year to make it easy, that is still a week of time for most.

    6 hours for fast, 10 for slow riders. Tough on distance which also breaks bikes, too tough on terrain (1st gear stuff) isn't for big bike rally. Sand dunes are easy, BTW.

    Just make the navigation standard and don't spin people around like on practice rallies. The goofiness will just cause following and make it difficult for those that can navigate to navigate away from a follower.

    You should practice before you go to an event, or at least that is how I look at it. Even HP isn't difficult, its just knowing a compass heading and mileage? Right?

    Bivouac, but showers are nice too.

    Good luck on this, seems like there is plenty of interest when people are typing but come time to put up and show up, just the core come out.
    #34
  15. Seth S

    Seth S Will _____ for _____

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    +1
    #35
  16. HogWild

    HogWild Scott Whitney

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    Sometimes yes, sometimes not so much. This is from our first prerun. Surface was good, but put some weight on it and things changed! Almost got suck there again in the 4WD on the second trip.

    [​IMG]

    Below, an image of a 1 mile section from one of the stages. Can you see the outline image of the devil coming out of those ripples?

    [​IMG]
    #36
  17. beechum1

    beechum1 Dandole Gas al Burro

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    1. 4 days
    2. 4-6 for top riders.
    3. terrain should dictate.
    4. 650 friendly, different - 1st to 5th gear stuff
    5. Prologue or qualification perhaps?
    6. Camp. <$
    7. Liason would be "traditional"
    8. 1 day stationary, maybe first day?
    9. 3 times of what?
    10. Build it, they will come. Or not.
    #37
  18. DaveRMS

    DaveRMS Long timer

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    Scott,

    Thanks for working on another awesome set of routes! The rally community in the US owes you a debt of gratitude.

    1. 5+ days
    2. 8 for an intermediate guy
    3. Nav should keep you on your toes. Agree with JL about no extra "tricks".
    4. Technical terrain is welcome. But in balance with ticking off long miles. Your typical routes are perfect, IMHO.
    5. No extra days. Practice ahead of time with Rally Navigator or other routes.
    6. Bivouac. Keeps the social aspect high.
    7. Liaisons are part of rally in order to get to the good stuff.
    8. Mix of moving and stationary has been nice at other rallies.
    9. I'd pay what's fair to rally anywhere, as long as it's awesome!
    10. Rally is rally. Cater to the rally crowd. Building awesome rallies is the best way to attract participation from riders in other disciplines.

    I'll be there! Thanks again.

    Dave
    #38
  19. pilo

    pilo Rhymes with below

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    1)3 days. I think if you want to grow the NA interest you need to make the rallys do-able without huge time commitment.
    2) 6 hours for experts, limited 1st gear stuff so big bikes can come
    3) make it challenging. I'm not really interested in a tour.
    4) Variety is great.
    5) Not for me - I'd say let Jimmy or someone else organize more classes at other times to make your prep easier.
    6) Cheap camp or bivy I'd say. You may need to offer both though.
    7) Whatever it takes to get to a good section of riding
    8) Fixed would be my preference.
    9) Yes just so 3X does not mean $8K
    10) Get Tim Morton to build a few bikes for rental or perhaps have RMS offer rental nav setups. Maybe give the top 2 finishers of each baja class a discount on the entry fee or rental nav or something like that.

    For me my biggest constraint is time. I'm far for wealthy, but I'd be willing to pay more $$ for something closer / compact as possible.

    Good luck and thanks for dreaming big.
    #39
  20. DaveRMS

    DaveRMS Long timer

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    #40