did front brakes change from 74 to 75 in any way?

Discussion in 'Airheads' started by mfp4073, Jun 9, 2012.

  1. mfp4073

    mfp4073 Long timer

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    Motorcycle superstore has a listing for Bikemaster brake pads, but only for 75-76 for the /6. Was going to give them a try, but there is not a listing for 74. Everything I see on max bmw and huckey show its the same for all 74-76. Just wanted to check up if there was something I was missing?
    #1
  2. wirewrkr

    wirewrkr the thread-killer

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    just a typical aftermarket supplier fuck-up. Get used to it.
    Pads are the same from 74 through the1980 models (except for the R65)
    The only difference between the 74 and later were the hydraulics.
    #2
  3. mfp4073

    mfp4073 Long timer

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    thanks man, and for shits and giggles what were those differences?
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  4. supershaft

    supershaft because I can

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    Brembo pads are another story. I see the wrong pads in Brembo's quite often. They look the same but they are not. K bike Brembo's (which are on Monolevers) are bigger and beefier and take a bigger pad. The pads for the smaller airhead Brembo's will slide right in but they are too small. The calipers and the pads are almost the same size but they are not. Just a heads up. Even dealerships use to make the mistake all the time from what I could tell.
    #4
  5. DoktorT

    DoktorT BigBrowedNeandereer

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    The only differences were single or dual caliper/rotor/MC and 40mm marked calipers or 38mm unmarked caliper/s. Pads same for all ATE /6/7.

    Lots of aftermarket parts catalogs are stupid/ignorant about make/year/model.
    #5
  6. disston

    disston ShadeTreeExpert

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    Isn't anybody going to mention the front Ate disc on a '74 is not drilled? It's the most visible difference.

    What hydraulic differences?
    #6
  7. Ray of Sunshine

    Ray of Sunshine Meat Donut 2 Some

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    At some point, BMW went sane and moved the master cylinder from under the tank to on the handlebar, where God wanted it. I believe this was done in 1977, with the /7 model.
    Otherwise, all of the disc brakes were ATE sliding pin POSes that are a lot better than the Fred Flintstone drag your feet style that people used in the 50,000B.C.E. era.

































    But not by much:deal
    #7
  8. mfp4073

    mfp4073 Long timer

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    Its wasnt the 77s that did it. Worked on a friends with one under the tank.
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  9. supershaft

    supershaft because I can

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    It wasn't till '80 or '81? Real calipers and a real MC at the same time. Add some real brake lines and you have some decent brakes even by today's standards. ATE's are an uphill battle from the drawing board. There are very good reasons why no one uses that design anymore. Very few ever did but here they are on some of our bikes. Not much you can do with them after you get them working as best they will but get a better MC and calipers. At least two ATE's will work better than a BMW drum but then BMW drums were never very impressive either. How could they be with shoe linings made out of diamond dust.
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  10. wirewrkr

    wirewrkr the thread-killer

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    Let me clear up some misconceptions
    BMW didn't move the master cylinder on the bikes until the introduction of the 81 models IN THE SUMMER OF 80.
    Eariler (in late 1978) The R45&R65 bikes were introduced. They were a platform for many continuing ideas that BMW was working on. Almost a test bed bike.
    One of the major new ideas was the Handlebar mounted master cylinder.
    It had a round reservoir tank that was not removable. When they put master cylinders on the bars on ALL their bikes in 81, the R65 also switched over to the newer rectangular replaceable reservoir.
    #10
  11. Wirespokes

    Wirespokes Beemerholics Anonymous

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    It's well known that SS doesn't consider the ATE swinging brakes worth a damn. Then there are those of us who can make them work pretty damn well and consider them as good as the two piston Brembos, but take a bit more fiddling to set up correctly. They may not handle continuous heavy braking as well as the brembos, but that's speculation since they've always worked well enough for me and others I know who ride with them. There are even guys who race using the ATE swinging calipers.

    So just because SS hates them and bad mouths them every chance, don't get the idea they're crap and good for scrap only. :D

    BTW, if you stick around here for longer than a month, you'll see this discussion again, with about the same results every time.
    #11
  12. crazydrummerdude

    crazydrummerdude Wacky Bongo Boy

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    :lol3

    "The only difference.."
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  13. supershaft

    supershaft because I can

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    Ws, why are you telling readers what I think? You don't have a clue and are WAY off base.

    Let's step back from your feelings about my accurate discussion of ATE caliper design and function disguised as claiming that I hate ATE calipers and get back on topic.

    RoS pointed out that they don't work well and I agreed by pointing out that they are a dead end design for many reasons. That is a fact of history at this point in time. I don't hate ATE calipers. I just don't have to con myself into believing that they work as well as modern caliper designs like Brembo's in order to make them work as well as they can in setting them up and using them.

    Twin piston Brembo's work not as well but just like ALL modern calipers. Calipers are radially mounted these days but they are the exact same basic design in form and function as our Brembo's. I can understand many riders not getting into the difference while riding. Hard braking is a skill most riders do not have but if you can't see how and why Brembo's work better by looking at their designs on paper, you need to think. One piston versus two is the tip of the iceberg. Their main weakness is swinging on such a short radius expecting two flats, not points, to make full contact. Hate has NOTHING to do with it. It's SS dealing with reality.
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  14. Wirespokes

    Wirespokes Beemerholics Anonymous

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    :rofl

    Ok, so you don't hate them. :D

    But with all the reasons given why they don't work worth a damn it sure gives that impression.

    And I won't argue that newer calipers are a better design.

    Logic aside, the swinging, one-piston ATE calipers can be made to work very well and comparable to the two-piston Brembos.

    Those who have the earlier ATEs and want improved brakes (and don't know they can work well) are getting the wrong idea that their systems are archaic crap that never worked well and should be scrapped immediately. :lol3

    That's BS, and I want them to know that.
    #14
  15. DoktorT

    DoktorT BigBrowedNeandereer

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    For sure, if you know how to adjust them properly, they work very well to all except those who race/stress the bike beyond any rational/safe public street/hiway protocol. That's a tiny percentage of Airheads.

    If you don't service and adjust them properly, poor function is a mechanic issue, not a brake issue.

    Very easy to set them dead on for adjustment if you know how. If you don't, danged near impossible. Like any procedure, too many others just guess and fiddle without reference to the manual, or just any Airhead with far deeper experience and skill.

    Doesn't surprize me at all that some don't know how, so claims and testamonials about how bad they are is the result.

    In typical normal use, the factory pads last danged near forever. Just a fresh set of pads can make a very big difference if yours are 30 years old, even though they are nothing like worn thin.

    I am like Wirespokes. When I see stupid advise, I want to point it out to the potential victims who don't have the background to know the difference.
    #15
  16. mpilot

    mpilot Adventurer

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    Where can one find the information on how to properly set up the ATE calipers?
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  17. Voltaire

    Voltaire Titanium and Ceramic Hipster

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    I agree with you two. I race an R90 and bought a Brembo front end with brakes because I was under the impression the ATEs were rubbish.
    I rebuilt the dual 40mm ATE's, had a second leg modified to take the scond, 13mm M/C, cast iron discs, stainless lines and new pads.
    I really like them and they work well, to the extent I passed on the Brembos to an inmate.

    Brembos are of course better as you would expect but that does not mean the earlier ones are no good.

    I rode an R75/5 with a sidecar around Europe in the early 90's with drum brakes and the sidecar one disconnected....worked fine....thankfully there was no internet at the time as the frame was apparently not up to a sidecar....:rofl

    So can we put the tiresome rubbishing of ATE's to bed as its getting boring.
    #17
  18. supershaft

    supershaft because I can

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    But your point of view is based on you knowing my feelings and putting words in my mouth. I have never said they don't work worth a damn. I have said that they have inherent design flaws that severely limit their performance. Sure, they work real well for all their problems but if you want decent brakes in the eighties era sense versus the seventies, it is going to be easier to start with a better design IMO. If you are happy with improved brakes in the seventies era sense, yes, you can get them working better than stock. Scrapped? It all depends on your expectations. If you have post seventies expectations, scrap them because, logic or not, they are not comparable to Brembo's in form or function.
    #18
  19. supershaft

    supershaft because I can

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    I have NEVER said they are no good. I have said that they are not as good as Brembo's in form and function. Racing or not, it sounds to me like you three guys don't get into the brakes much for protocol and whatnot? :lol3 That's fine and dandy but don't go off with a bunch of BS about how ATE's are as good as Brembo's. Or, for that matter, what I think or how I don't know how to adjust ATE's. I think I know how to adjust ATE's better than most and I know that I can use them better than most. Sure, they are fine as long as you don't expect more than they can deliver. If you do, you need better brakes.

    Rubbish? It's you guys that are putting me into the position of defending myself against what I am told I feel and think and accusations that if ATE's don't work well you don't know how to adjust them. That is hilarious! Take your blinders off!

    I am glad they work good for you Voltaire. I NEVER said they don't unless you want to compare them to better brakes but it sounds like you guys don't need better brakes. Good for you. Now get off the rest of our backs and let's discuss braking.
    #19
  20. Voltaire

    Voltaire Titanium and Ceramic Hipster

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    No one is saying that ATE's are as good as Brembos, but there is nothing wrong with them, they are just part of the Disc brake evolution that as you say was a dead end.....like air cooling was in cars.
    If you want better brakes buy a bike with better brakes, the pre 81's are what they are, but can be improved on.
    I have a Commando and the Lockheed on that is really average...but would I fit an Brembo or aftermarket floating disc and 4 pot calipers that are available for them......no because that is not what classic bikes are about to me.
    I'm guessing you have never ridden a bike with sorted ATE's, if your ever in NZ I'll organize you a day at Pukekohe with its mile back straight leading into a 2nd gear hairpin and you can have a go.....surprises quite a few modern bike riders....:D
    #20