dirty oil and dirty coolant after water pump change

Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by rburkat, Sep 3, 2012.

  1. rburkat

    rburkat Been here awhile

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    I had some oil in my coolant and some milky stuff in my oil the other week so I changed the water pump with a CJdesigns kit. I have a scotts filter so did not have oil pressure issues.

    I went for a 100 mile ride and noticed that my engine ice was becoming dirty. I thought maybe I did not clean the engine enough so I flushed the pump again, and even ran vinegar and water through it for 30 minutes while running the engine and adding water mix till the water coming out of the pump upper drain was crystal clear.
    I changed the oil again and put new engine ice in.


    Went for another ride and after 40 miles of hard offroad I see the following.

    Engine ice sample compared to original after 40 miles...
    [​IMG]

    Some oil from the reservoir after 40 miles...
    [​IMG]

    Oil is pretty dark compared to what I put in.

    Is this a head gasket? Maybe it was not the water pump in the first place? What's my next move?
    I want to fix this asap so I can ride to the ktm rally next week.

    Thanks
    #1
  2. Katoom72

    Katoom72 Been here awhile

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    You replaced all of the gaskets?
    #2
  3. rburkat

    rburkat Been here awhile

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    I replaced the 2 gaskets that came with the CJdesigns kit. Cleaned surfaces and put in the large clutch cover one and a new rubber water pump one.
    #3
  4. grinns

    grinns Semper Fi

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    Mine turned grey because the rear clip poped off, but it took longer than that. Side effects I saw were coolant increases, then it changed to coolant decreases. Then spooge. Changed it out because it killed the seal too. The impeller was garbage after that and a few flushes showed chunks of plastic.
    #4
  5. gefr

    gefr Life is a trip

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    Head gasket would leak exaust gas in the radiator. Have you seen bubbles in the coolant?
    #5
  6. MP5

    MP5 Been here awhile

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    Possibly similar to what happened to me. I did the whole water pump fix and still had some white stuff in my window. I also flushed my coolant system very well. I ended up flushing my oil 5 times to make sure I had no more coolant in my oil. There will be some residual coolant in your system for a while. I even flushed my oil tank. I have had no issues however. Coolant has not moved in my expansion tank since my pump fix. I'd just run it and keep an eye on your coolant tank for a while.
    #6
  7. rburkat

    rburkat Been here awhile

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    I got one of these CO2 testers in coolant and the results.....

    Test liquid before....

    [​IMG]

    Test liquid 20 seconds into the test...

    [​IMG]

    Green/yellow means combustion gases are getting into the coolant :(

    Which cylinder head gasket goes first or should I be doing both? Is this a easy job or should I take it to the shop?
    #7
  8. dmn0507

    dmn0507 Been here awhile

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    I Don't know how to find out which gasket is leaking, perhaps start the engine without 1 sparkplug and repeat the test? it should run on 1 cyl.

    To change the gaskets you need to remove the engine from the bike, nothing extremely complicated, i did it by myself, but of course you know your limits and the tools you have.

    Changing only the bad gasket should be enough, if it's just a "random" failure also the brand new gasket could fail, so no reasom to change a good one (assuming you can find which one is leaking.) YMMV
    How many km on the bike?
    #8
  9. J Lewis

    J Lewis Numb Nuts

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    Radek,

    Look at the spark plugs, they will often tell you if there is anything bad going into the cylinder. Additionally there is usually a pressure buildup in the cooling system if it is the head gasket. And even the residual stuff from the old bad seal can show. If you are not loosing or using coolant or oil I would not be as quick to tear it down.
    #9
  10. rburkat

    rburkat Been here awhile

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    So just did a leak down test.

    Rear cylinder is perfect

    Front is leaking bad. Odd thing is the air is coming back up the intake valves.
    They are in spec and at tdc do that's weird.
    Taking front cylinder off to investigate
    #10
  11. rburkat

    rburkat Been here awhile

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    So front cylinder removed.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The clean spot on the piston I think is where it was being cleaned by coolant coming in.

    Lots of crud everywhere but I'm not sure if this is normal or not. Does anyone have some pics of what their cylinder/valves look like after say 20K miles?

    Thanks
    #11
  12. Stumpalump

    Stumpalump Been here awhile

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    Looks like you found the problem. Are you going to pull the rear as well? It would be tempting not to.
    #12
  13. dmn0507

    dmn0507 Been here awhile

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    I think your engine is not too dirty, here my intake valves and head/piston after 67K Km

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Btw, you can remove the front engine mount, it should be easier to work on the front cylinder.
    #13
  14. Off Road Ryder

    Off Road Ryder Long timer

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    Hope you get it together quickly, looking forward to seeing you next week.
    #14
  15. rburkat

    rburkat Been here awhile

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    Thanks for the pics...it's my first time looking at this so nice to hear it's not out of the ordinary.

    I should be good to go. It's being cleaned and put together right now. Unless I find something else wrong I should take it for a test ride tonight/tomorrow and then I'll be ready to roll Monday.

    Also wanted to give a shout out to Ron at KTMTwins for overnighting me a the head gasket kit. I had ordered one from my shop early in the week and it was supposed to take only 3 days but Thursday the shop tells me that it would not be in till next thursday...arghh. So I called ktmtwins in the afternoon, Ron physically confirmed that he had the kit, and overnighted it to me. I picked it up yesterday and am using it now. Thank you for that great service.
    #15
  16. Off Road Ryder

    Off Road Ryder Long timer

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    I should be good to go. It's being cleaned and put together right now. Unless I find something else wrong I should take it for a test ride tonight/tomorrow and then I'll be ready to roll Monday.

    Also wanted to give a shout out to Ron at KTMTwins for overnighting me a the head gasket kit. I had ordered one from my shop early in the week and it was supposed to take only 3 days but Thursday the shop tells me that it would not be in till next thursday...arghh. So I called ktmtwins in the afternoon, Ron physically confirmed that he had the kit, and overnighted it to me. I picked it up yesterday and am using it now. Thank you for that great service.[/QUOTE]

    Great. Good to hear you got the parts. Give me a shout. right now it looks like the plan is to meet another rider at Snoqualmie pass at 9 am tue morning.. Hoping for a light rain in the mountains monday night.
    #16
  17. rburkat

    rburkat Been here awhile

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    Cleaned the head, valves, and piston and put in new gaskets. The bike is back together and went for a hour night ride on roads. First of all I think this head gasket and open valve has been happening for a while because the bike I was riding before was not a 990! All of a sudden there is this amazing power roll on low in the rpm range that did not exist before. I know this for a fact because all year my buddies would pop up wheelies and for the life of me I could not get the front end up on this thing. I just assumed maybe that I'm too big or just useless at that. Turns out that it was my bike. Tonight I can get that front end up with just a blip of the throttle.
    To generate power before I was always riding rpm over 7k but now there is all this low end spunk.
    The other thing I notice is the engine breaking.

    Bad news is that I now have to relearn how to ride this bucking bronco. I'm stoked.

    Tomorrow I'll vet it out on dirt.
    #17
  18. Guano11

    Guano11 Behind Bars....

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    Sweet! That's gotta be a satisfying feeling of accomplishment. :thumb
    #18