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Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by Y E T I, Aug 28, 2009.
Thank you ...
Some of us are in the slow group
Where is that damn valve located physically on the bike??
I wondering what the downside would be of taking the thing out completely....
18 inches behind the filler neck..... Take off the right side tank plastic... you will see it.... Little 25mm long aluminum canister....by 7mm diameter....
Ok my new replacement tank (about 6 months old) has started to crack, small crack at present, but it's there.
I still have the canister system installed as original - did did not want to get in a fight about the tank swap not being covered because I HAD removed the canister ...
I think the replacement tank should have a 2-year warranty maybe parts only ... not labor ???
I know the dealer inspected the pressure/vacuum valve when my new tank was installed, but may not have checked for a plugged canister.
If the canister is working properly I think air should pass freely in both directions on all three fittings of the canister (in from tank / out to engine / vent).
Does this sound right? I likely should either inspect the canister ............ once I'm sure I know what to expect....
Then make a plan ....
Yeppers on the 24 month warranty on the parts... At least thats what my dealer states as well. Personally I would rip out the cc... Just for good measure. I reinstalled the pressure/vacuum valve in my filter....as it is minimizing the fuel oders venting to the outside...and I have had no issues with over pressurized tank. My opinion..... Even with an over pressurized tank....ie... malfunctioning vent system..... it will NOT cause the tank to crack...... You would need to engage with pressures and vacuum numbers....far greater than what the bike would tolerate..... I really think bad casting is the issue here.... Mine is '09....HOT desert.... lots of uv..... not a thing... Just imho....
Maybe they will have the difficulties ironed out in 2 years .... if not I wonder if the 2-year clock starts over when I get the replacement ... replaced ...
I'm going to check the pressure/vacuum valve my self, and confirm the canister is free-flowing ....
Then have a cold one and comtemplate my next move ...
Has anyone heard of a single instance of a US model F800S or ST tank ever cracking? I haven't. They use the same charcoal cannister and emissions system (albeit in a different location, but all the parts are still there)
There have been many instances reported of stall outs and poor running due to plugged up cannisters and so on, but no cracks ever appearing. (like I say, that I know of)
So. Either the material, the shape, or the parts used ie: the pressure/vacuum valves, have something subtley different enough to do this.
If the hoses, and pressure/vacuum valve thingies are the same as the S and ST models, the CC itself is identical, then it boils down to if the tank material or construction requirements are changed, or the actual shape of the thing.
Also the newer R models are different, both US and Euro, but again, no instances of cracking has been heard of by me.
Maybe the plastic just can't be molded in the specific shape needed on the GS. Too sharp bends or something. There is a slot molded into the top of the GS tanks for a frame brace that is not present on the S, ST and R models.
I had a very high pressure in my tank every time I filled up during a long ride around town (> 50 miles)
My tank was later replaced (after signs of cracking) and the Y fix completed - No more large pressure releases since... why ?? i don't know. :huh
Warranty over now....The CC gets the boot this weekend!
You can test the electronic valves with the GS911 device.
That is very weird.... if I understand how this "system" works ... a the presents or absence of a properly functioning CC should not change how much pressure can be built up in the tank as the CC is "pass thru" and the little pressure-vacuum valve, which is also installed on non-CC bikes controls that pressure.
Let me add this, as Joel has been helping me with my 2011 bike that has been pressurizing the tank.
The pressure-vaccum valve should let air pass freely TO the tank, and slowly away. The check ball has microscopic pores that let air away from the tank at a very slow rate. Problem is, within 6500 miles and 1 winter's storage - my pores were starting to clog and were restricting flow away from the tank too much.
The ball can be removed. The cylinder splits into 2 pieces. This way, your tank still vents great, AND the fumes get taken care of by the CC.
Thanks go to Joel on this one, I'm just relaying knowledge to the collective.
I missed that post somehow... I did not realize that the check-ball was porous (well supposed to be porous) ...
I'm not sure I get the point of that valve, but I'm sure there IS a point..... :huh
Taking the ball out, or maybe just replacing it with an in-line coupler might be a plan...
He did say that very early bikes were a spring loaded valve, instead of porous.
WARNING: I haven't tested running the bike this way yet, so who knows - I may end up with a canister full of fuel. Now with the check ball gone expanding fuel has free run to the canister.
Nut'n is easy is it......
I sure would not think fuel would run all the way to the canister unless the bike was upside-down in which case the tip-over valve should be closed, or that the bike was really overfueled.... ???
Remember, the gas coming out of an underground tank might be 55 degrees. Top off your tank on a hot sunny day and it's going to expand sending air pressure out that vent. Now, hang a nice, sweeping right hand corner and the gas hits that upper corner of the tank - - and out the vent line it goes - - straight to the CC.
We'll see soon enough.
yeap the way I see it ... if you dont need the CC you dont need the valve... the valve must be to limit the chance on the CC filling with gas ... No CC no Valve.
Gas expansion, flipped bike, etc. how does Honda do on the dirt bikes?? F it. Let it go thru the hose on the filler cap...
I agree with HTCA above..... The valve is not needed. .....But I want to add this function that I mentioned way back in this thread.... When a very small suction is applied against the arrow on the valve..( away from the tank) the valve opens full up..... Something inside displaces the ball when suction is applied... When I found this ..... it threw me for a loop... Not really making sense of that. The only way this could occur is when your purge valve is opened by the zfe and vacuum is applied to the CC to combust the fumes.... If the vent ( with or without the t modification) is plugged effectively plugging the CC, as with a gas infused CC....... that vacuum will now travel up the line and fully open the valve.....and now suck fuel in from the tank.....etc.... I experimented with reinstalling the valve in my CC'less bike......and it is somehow minimizing the odor in the garage....and the tank has no overpressure.... But I believe that if a component is not needed.....it'l be removed...... So will this soon.... It was not much more fumes...without the valve.....
Seemed fine today. Temps in the 80's, full tank - - no pressure at all.
I want to keep my CC as I park in an attached garage alongside the shared wall with the house. Don't want stinky gas fumes in the living room!
Only time will tell.
Yeah, the micro porous check ball allows air to travel to tank freely and is supposed to limit the rate of evaporation to the canister. It has a small affect on HC emissions that is too small for me to care about, and if removed will make it a little easier to flow fuel to the canister. The micro porous ball plugs all the time. The effect on flowing fuel to the canister is only relevant to people who habitually put 4.5 gallons of fuel in a 4.2 gallon tank.
The canister filters air going to the tank AND stores HC emissions. A bike sitting on the sun or riding down the road will emit FAR more HC then a car because the tank is exposed to the sun AND huge engine, exhaust, and fuel pump heating.
I am very far from an environmentalist, but the shit that turned the air brown, kept people indoors, and made for pretty sun rises in the Las Angles area, that was HC.
I don't mind people driving big SUV's or starting forrest fires, but for me, the charcoal canister and TWC are always going to stay on my bike because they make a huge difference with little to no negative impacts.
Also note, laws are getting more enforced all the time. I am safety inspection certified in Missouri and have been informed by the officer that inspects my work that Missouri is going to start enforcing the emissions rules on bikes, so if I pass a bike that has the TWC or carbon canister removed, I am liable for up to a 20 grand fine.
Im not over emotional on this. I will happily step aside and let someone else at the dealership pass the bike, but between the risk of getting caught and the knowledge that these things really do matter, I won't pass it myself.
Any chance you still have the pics from your original post of the 'how to' for this CC removal? A couple very key images are not showing (dead links) and I'm not much of a wrencher on the GS. Dirtbikes no problem, but the F800GS is more technical than I am. Me =
If not, no biggie.