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Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by jerbelgium, Jun 24, 2013.
Look like a good fulcrum for a femur or tibia break in my opinion.....Sans crash bars for Pascal...
Yeah, I'm definitely happy with them. Thanks again.
As for all this debating back and forth I can agree with different points of view and see the validity of the arguments. Except the weight thing. Both my bars and the cross-over bar together can't weigh more than 8lbs. If you're that concerned about a couple of pounds down low on the bike wear lighter boots or skip the double cheeseburger. With a bike as big and heavy as this (for a dirt bike anyways, still pathetically light compared to a cruiser) you're really not making any change with those bars.
Always have them on. Now that I've converted to studs instead of bolts on the front mounts, the bars even stay on during maintenance.
Would I use crashbars again? Hell. Farking. No.
I'm sure this will start an argument, but I've personally seen more damage done by crashbars than prevented by them.
The 9*0's, from an engineering perspective, have awful crash bar mount points. The front two bolts go into the same non-structural aluminum plate, at almost the same location! The long arm that extends upward under the radiator has no inwards bracing, and hence the bending moment from a sideways impact just twists the bars around, crumpling them back into the front fairing, or worse, the tank they're supposed to protect. I've seen this crumpling behavior trash a bundle of fairings that would have otherwise been fine (mine included) , and hole tanks on two occasions. Usually down near the lower tank bolt, when the flange mount there deforms inwards and takes the bolt with it. Unless you have a brace across the front of the radiator - in which case it bends too, crushing into the radiator. Load-wise, they're just not a well-braced design.
On top of that, as the rear mount on most 9*0 crash-bar designs is a jaw-clamp on the frame, a hit from the front will cause the bars to bend and rotate backwards and down, as the rear clamp slides down the frame. You'll see the mild version of this on a lot of bikes after most crashes, where the bars contact and rub on the lower front of the fairing. A bigger hit, however, can wrench the bars around far enough to crush the fairing, possibly damage the radiator, and even deform the hinge bolt and clamp teeth enough to release the jaws, and send the aft section of the bar back into your engine case. I've also seen this happen. It's surprising how mild the impact was - the impact angle was just right.
The nylon standard tanks are incredibly tough in terms of impact strength. It's abrasion and puncture resistance where they're lacking, and the carbon-kevlar (i.e. NOT the KTM OEM carbon guards) IMHO fill this gap better than crash bars. They're lighter, slimmer, they don't catch on things and twist or bend in, they don't have big gaps to let rocks sneak past, and they're cheaper.
For what it's worth, I've lost count of the slides my CF guards have had. Rock, sand, gravel, tarmac, roos. But earlier this year, I was hit head on by a firetruck, in the front-right quarter. Closing speed around 70kph/40mph. My right carbon guard shows the scars from the truck bumper, the left has the gravelrash from the subsequent highside and slide down the road. The tanks were undamaged, as was the rest of the bike, save for the right Cycra bark-buster (and me...). The tanks took basically the entire hit. THAT's how tough they are.
I know a lot of people will jump in and say "Well, I highsided MY bike,and MY crashbars did just fine" and I won't dispute that. They can work quite well in the right circumstances: on tarmac. They shelter the upper fairings well and slide great on smooth-surfaces. But what I'm saying is that the 950 was never actually designed to fit bars, and as such, they can cause more harm than good.
Although the CF guards do not include competency, they do mitigate very well against the results of a lack thereof.
I like em...
Because of sharp pointy rocks, on some trails I ride.
I don't find them as visually offensive as others.
But if I raced it, of course I wouldn't use them or care...
When they get bent its a nightmare to remove/mount. Getting them straight is another nightmare.
Unless you go road rash, these wont protect much, a sharp rock can puncture one of the tanks even with bars.
They also add significat weight.
One positive aspect: they can be great grabbing handles when you manage to get yourself and bike in a f#cked up place and need an extra hand.
Any one try the happy trail bars? Look nicely made- designed......
That's true. I needed a quick clamp (the ratcheting kind) in order to get my right side bar bolted up again. Hopefully it doesn't have to come off again, or else I might cut it, bend it, and reweld it.
Not anymore, :) My logical side won out and I took them off. I'd rather get some scratches and break a tank than bend the frame or mess up a ton of other stuff. For paved rides I may throw them back on, but out here it was a joy not having them on today!
Yep! Use them as well.
I don't know how you guys could know that the crashbars were the ones, that actually protected your tanks in a getoff, or it could've been fine anyway.. The tanks/fairing are quite expensive, but:
- I hit a tree at about 30mph, had one of the brake disks, lower triple, front subframe bent (twisting the fairing more than a bit - but they went back to their shape after unbolting them from the subframe), broke the steering limiter off the frame, still the plastic parts all survived - only the paint came off here and there.
- Dropped the bike on all kind of terrain (rocks, sand, mud, trees, bushes, tar, Moon, etc.) more than I could count, and the tanks/fairings are only scratched, but none of them are broken.
- I only have the 990's tank protectors hacked to suite the 950.
I'm not saying that it's better without the crash bars, I'm just saying that after the shit hits the fan, it's hard to tell if the bars would have, or would have not saved the situation.. You can crack the tanks with or without the bars, break the engine case with the bar (probably without as well), bend the frame with or without the bar, etc..
I was fine without the bars for the past 30k kms, but it's possible that next time I fall I'll crack the tanks.. Maybe if I bought the bars, I'd bend the frame.. You can never know, so IMO it's no need to sweat it. Use them if you believe it's better with them, lose them if you're ok without them. But they're not essential, many of us can tell you that, based on our lots of combined getoffs and miles.
I'm in the no bars camp. From what I understand the stock tanks are pretty burly. The tanks on my old 640 and 310 took one hell of a beating with no problems off road. On road I can see the advantages but it just isn't worth the weight and hassle for me. I would like to add some carbon kevlar glue ons like previously mentioned but that is down the road.
<img src="http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1397088_741036526850_559971927_o.jpg" style="width:640px;">
After wasting time on threads that give no objective information, this one is a breath of fresh air!
Count me in the no crash bars camp. I am in the camp that feels that the tanks with plastic protectors are pretty darn tuff. But I would note that I buy full coverage insurance which would cover some of the cost of a new/used tank.
Ill deal with the few lbs my crash bars weigh. I don't feel any strange vibration and I don't care about scratching my bike, but do like bouncing them off trees or other obstacles.:eek1
Putting the studs in on the lower mounts makes removal and install a piece of cake.
Crash Bars? +
Personally I like the look of them, and was ready to order some but eh, the argument against just saved me some dough.
No been down twice no major damage just some rash
I have been down countless times with and without crash bars. Conclusion... Don't need them, don't want them. Bike looks and feels better without.
Had a decent wreck recently... Still in the no bars category, :)
$19 to replace this is perfect. My broken kneecap, however, takes a bit more, lol! (Must remember to not be an IDIOT all the time...)