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Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by moron, Sep 6, 2007.
My wife (5' nothing) is going to be getting her first bike in the near future. We are looking hard at the Blast. I am curious why you don't like them. I am not trying to start an arguement, but would like to hear differing opinions.
I tend to ride faster and push the limits of my abilities more when it's cool enough to wear a jacket, boots and Carhardts. But I'll still do the occasional wheelie while wearing shorts, T shirt, & tennis shoes so I guess it's a coin toss.
ATGATT............never heard of it til I hit this site. The first time I donned leathers, I felt more confident. I ride harder when wearing leathers or the FXRG suit. No doubt.
Crashed hard over 20 years ago with no helmet. Lost a little hair there, where my noggin was scrapin the pavement. 75' skid marks, 5 sheriff cars, 5 ambulances. I rode home. Insurance expired the week before so I declined when asked if I wanted to go to the hospital. Can't use the crash as an example of surviving an accident without a helmet, but I can use the crash as an example of surviving an accident due to drunkeness.
If no helmet law and a familiar or stress free area, I ride without, but if I don't know the area the skid lid stays on.
Hmmm......most accidents happen at 20 mph or less- helmets are designed for up to a 14 mph impact.
Sneakers are ok, but if it is not blisteringly hot out, I wear engineer boots.
When I ride in a leather jacket, jeans, gloves, boots and helmet, I am much
more tentative then when one piece leathers replace the jeans and jacket.
I've had two wrecks in the last three years.
One on the street. Low sided between 35 and 40, slid a while. Would have
walked away but I got nailed between the shoulder blades by a bike that was
following too closely and doing 35 to 40. I was only sore (one piece leathers).
I went down on the track at 75. Slid 150 feet. Quarter size strawberry on
right forearm. I'll take the gear.
and ride faster.
I wear the sme thing on the "street".
Good point. When in leathers it feels somehow like "superman". I guess it all gets down to riding the "same" with a little bit more of space for error.
Actually I "feel" more cool looking when I'm decked out with all the gear and I'm going to keep telling myself it's true whether anyone else thinks so or not. It's my skin, my head, my bones and my everything else inside so it's my opinion that counts.
If someone wants to "make fun" of my gear I just smile along with them... not because it's funny but because I love being reminded of what it was like to be in the first grade.
Not sure I ride more agressively because I'm wearing the gear but I for sure feel more safe. But that begs the question of whether riding "a little more agressive" is worse than riding "a little more timid". I'm not talking about blowing down the highway on one wheel or drifting corners at 90+ in the neighborhood here because feeling safer has nothing to do with that. I'm talking about just pushing it a little harder and a being little quicker than normal.
We accept a level of risk when we ride, if we go the ATGATT route we reduce the risk, it is possible that we then ride quicker to bring us back near our level of acceptable risk, if I am not properly dressed for riding I will ride slower, as we get older and possibly wiser we take fewer risks due to our experience, as a young rider I could not go a week without a near miss, heart in mouth incident, normally due to excess speed and poor anticipation, as an older rider I hope to avoid putting myself in those situations, ATGATT definitely, the first riders I saw taking ATGATT seriously were German guys twenty odd years ago, having a talk with them revealed that their insurers would not pay the same if inadequate riding gear contributed to their injuries.
Common sense really.
Really.... I thought coordura/kevlar was supposed to be the best all around.
and a really dumb question....
Whats a pressure suit?
I wore my motoport jacket + pants, doc martin boots, held gloves yesterday for 140 round trip to mt airy and was very hot while riding but after the ride when i stopped i felt like i was going to die.... I took my gear off, drank water, and just kept feeling like i was burning inside and my head was cooking.
Is there any ATGATT that you can wear over clothes that doesn't feel like a snowmobile suit?
A good grade of leather has better abrasion resistance but arguably the thickness makes it difficult to get a strong seam so it may come apart at the seams under conditions where textile will hold together.
In practical terms a good riding suit of any material is good protection, a textile suit however may need fixing after a slided that leather survives unscathed.
One example http://www.ascycles.com/detail.aspx?ID=44207. Has shoulder, elbow, chest, back, and other protection in a skin-tight stretch mesh carrier.
The high end mesh stuff and the new BMW Comfortshell come to mind, but to be really comfortable when it's hot you'd do better to dress for the ride and change clothes if you need to when you get there. The clothes are an extra layer that trap heat and prevent evaporation.
You might want to get a Camelbak and use it on the way.
By the way, Doc Martens look rugged but they really aren't all that good as protection.
For me the two downsides to ATGATT is
1) Less Riding: There have been many times when I wanted to take the bike out but didn't because I was too lazy to switch the clothes I was in and change to ATG. Also I don't want to be carrying all my gear when I arrive at my destination. Minor inconveniance but enough of one to make me take the car instead of the bike.
2) Sweat and heat: For the first couple of years at my job I used to commute everyday to work on my bike before I had a car, 10 miles of traffic lights and intersections. I would get to work with huge sweat spots and it was annoying to carry gear and change of clothes when the parking lot is three blocks away from your office. Now that I have a car I'll only take the bike to work when the temp is lower than 85 and dry or 75 and humid.
Even after reading the face plant posts and knowing about all the various gear that is available I am still not atgatt.
As for what I wear and when:
Everytime I ride: Full face helmet, gloves and motorcycle specific boots.
Highway : Same as above and motorcycle jacket with armor
Town: Same as above on V-Strom, 50/50 jacket/no jacket on Shadow cruiser.
Never ride with shorts, sneakers, or short sleeves.
No riding Pants as of yet - deciding now on what to get depending on conveniance of use and application. Did recently purchase a pair of strap on T-Pro knee pads. Figure at least my knees will be protected from impact and the strap on feature let me put on/off with whatever pants I'm wearing without having to take off my shoes.
To me it makes it hard to use a motorcycle as a source of transportation if I have to wear ATGATT. Let's say I want to go to a movie. What am I supposed to do with ATG once I get there? Take up 3 seats with it? I know it should be worn ATT while riding though. Therein lies the dilemma.
FWIW, I've wrecked at 90ish mph wearing jeans, a Tshirt and a helmet. No broken bones, but lost a lot of skin. This was in 1974.
It's not like you only have, say, 100 points worth of worry to spend and if you use up all 100 worry points on ATGATT then you have nothing left for worrying about riding properly.
Concern over ATGATT has nothing to do with how much or how little concern we have about riding. THE TWO HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH EACH OTHER. Your point that people do not spend enough time taking responsibility for poor riding may be valid, but it should not in any way lead to this thread.
Suggesting that it may lead to a false sense of security is worthy of consideration. My response to this is that, yes, riding naked would probably make riders much more cautious, but I still think ATGATT is safer.
After all is said, we each make our own choices and live with the consequences. There are good and bad points to absolutely everything in life.
"To me it makes it hard to use a motorcycle as a source of transportation if I have to wear ATGATT. Let's say I want to go to a movie. What am I supposed to do with ATG once I get there? Take up 3 seats with it?"
You could always get a helmet lock (there are several kinds) for your bike. There are even cable locks that let you attach your jacket to the bike, though the jacket shouldn't be too hard to either wear in the theatre or hold on your lap. (Same applies to your riding pants/boots. You might look a bit different, but cool nonetheless. )
As far as ATGATT downsides, the main issue AFAIC is the inconvenience of "suiting up" to ride as opposed to just jumping in the car with no special preparation, and then the need to "de-suit" when you get to your destination if staying in your gear isn't an option (eg, riding to work).
Secondarily, the gear gets warm when you're not moving, of course.
Personally, I'm uncomfortable not wearing ATGATT nowadays, though I used to wear NOTGATT (none of the gear, all the time) in the '70s, not even a helmet, when my motorcycle was my only transportation.
Older and wiser now, and ride just for fun.
You can lock it to the bike, put it in the seat next to you in the theater, or put it under the seat. I generally lock the helmet onto the bike and put the jacket in the seat next to me like I do with my winter coat. If the theater is packed though then I put it under the seat.
Go to the nice theater in town that still has a coat check?
This isn't 1950 any more. I live in Phx and coats aren't normally needed.
My point was that ATGATT makes the bike much tougher to use for me, for regular use. If I am just going out for a ride then ATGATT is much easier to deal with. If I am making five stops at different places and spending some time at each one, then it is a PITA. It is also easier to do in cooler climates. We have had over 30 days this year where the temps were over 110.