DR650SE Index Topic #4- SUSPENSION/CHASSIS

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by Krusty ..., Nov 4, 2010.

  1. V Twin

    V Twin Adventurer

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    The V Strom ones come with 3x0.012" and 2x0.015"

    Wow I am glad that I didnt just drop them straight in.

    Thanks that give me a good starting point.
    #41
  2. NordieBoy

    NordieBoy Armature speller

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    I rode my 120kg TT350 with the stock Triumph Scrambler ones in.

    Quite harsh...
    #42
  3. MAXNX

    MAXNX Adventurer

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    Hey all,just fitted a KX450 shock to my DR650.
    It is really the same deal as the DRZ400 shock as far as milling down the dog bone to accept the smaller lower mount. I did use different bearing.
    I shaved the dog bone down to 21mm and used this bearing
    09263-17032 Suzuki needle bearing 17x24x15

    I then took .5mm off each side of the lower shock mount and cut down the stock bushing to the proper length.
    I did have to drill new holes for mounting approx 5/8 inch from stock KX holes otherwise it would not mount up.
    On the top mount I used 2 -10mm washers on each side to center the top or you could use a 4mm bushing on each side,I had trouble finding one and the washers were easy enough and perfect width.

    I chose this shock mostly because it was re valved/sprung for my weight. Plus I got a little more length out of it to help with the rmz fork upgrade. I didn't take any pictures because It was kind of a pain in the arse to weasel it in there and I was in no mood to take pics. The head pipe needs to be put in first and the exhaust removed from rear. In other words you can not feed the stock head pipe past the spring and reservoir with the mid pipe attached.

    Now I just need to finish the details of the fork upgrade-ignition,headlight,can't wait to try this thing out!
    #43
  4. TheMightyQuinn

    TheMightyQuinn Adventurer

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    Eakins,

    Could you please elaborate on the "unreal improvement"? I've got 20K on my DR650. Ride it hard on both street and trails. I'm still on the stock suspension with only the rear preload and damping set to near max. I'm 210 lbs and usually carry 10-40 lbs on the rear rack. About the only things I cannot do well with my setup are hitting big bumps (large whoops and jumps) fast, and keeping up with race type dirt bikes in the rough stuff. I'm considering the suspension mods you mention. Will these mods allow for fast riding in the conditions I've mentioned?
    #44
  5. eakins

    eakins Butler Maps

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    yes. compared to stock i ride alot faster, but still not USD fast.
    if you hope to keep up with true dirt bikes you bought the wrong bike.
    go buy a wr450f as the dr is not a true dirt bike.
    all the $ in the world won't make it KTM plush.
    the DR is a japanese dual-sport from the 90s, nothing more, but they make great day exploring and adv touring bikes.


    since i wrote that i figured out my fork spring (.50 eibach) is for someone aprox. 215lbs so i'll be pulling that one out selling it and getting a .47 eibach (175lbs)
    #45
  6. TheMightyQuinn

    TheMightyQuinn Adventurer

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    Thanks Eakins,
    The wr450s are nice dirt bikes but I rather doubt that I could have put 20,000 of the kind of miles (80-90 MPH for several hours at a time, two up exploring, touring) I have so far on DR650 without wearing out several of them and myself for that matter. The bike I need is a TE610/630, KTM690 or 950 SE. What I can afford right now are some springs and valves for the suspension to hopefully get part way there. I did not buy the DR to race with dirt bikes but now and again when the pace picks up on a rough trail ride it will be nice to have a bit more control. I agree that the DR650 is a great exploring and adv touring bike. I would add that its also very fun and fast on a tight twisty paved road. Did not buy it to race with sport bikes either, but sometimes I can't help myself.:D

    I would be interested in your .50 Ebachs when your done with them if the shipping cost is not prohibitive. I'm 210 lbs and I use a 5 gallon gas tank so the .50s might be just about right.
    #46
  7. ER70S-2

    ER70S-2 Long timer

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    NC Rick:

    An important note:

    DO NOT use the Suzuki manual torque specification to tighten the lower shock mounting bolt (on the shock clevis).

    The prescribed torque will often rip the aluminum threads out of the clevice on the OEM or our shock.

    There is an error in the manual.


    We suggest 43 NM as the correct torque to tighten the M-10 fastener in the aluminum thread.
    #47
  8. pookiebear

    pookiebear Soylent Mayhem

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    straight rate springs up front. and cogent shock as well on the dr650 I had. It was supermoto'd and the difference in the gravel and dirt was substantial.
    #48
  9. `Sasquatch

    `Sasquatch n00b

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    What model forks and what rear shock is that? Also, what crowns did you use and did they maintain any type of steering lock?
    #49
  10. NordieBoy

    NordieBoy Armature speller

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    It's an Ohlins DR650 shock.
    #50
    mouthfulloflake likes this.
  11. ADV8

    ADV8 Taumarunui..Darwin..

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    The forks are a brand new set of twin piston Showa's (RMZ250)
    Ohlins TXX cartridges.
    The rear shock is as Nordie says a DR650 Ohlins that was a let down from day one (like it held no gas :lol3)
    Built by a total knob head at great expense (over $2000)
    It and the forks will got to Frank Pons to be set up properly.
    The bike already has RMZ450 forks and triples so the new forks will slot right in.
    I might see about getting the travel reduced to around 11 inches.

    http://s30.photobucket.com/albums/c345/manurewa/07RMZ450Fork/?start=all

    .
    #51
  12. LexTalionis

    LexTalionis Inciteful

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    If you’re thinking of installing a heavier shock spring rather than replacing the entire shock, here’s my experience.

    I weigh 235lbs wearing street clothing, don’t know how much more my riding gear weighs but it’s the usual amount. I always carry 20-25lbs of miscellaneous stuff in the tailbag or saddlebags. My bike is a single-seater, I’ve removed the passenger pegs; at 6’2”, there’s no room for a passenger. Riding is 20% freeway, 75% “spirited riding” on paved and sometimes rough mountain roads, 5% dirt forest roads.

    I had the OEM shock spring adjusting collars all the way down, and was happy with the ride. But, I couldn’t carry camping gear, the spring compression was maxed out. So I bought ProCycle’s heavier spring of the two offered. Now, fully loaded with camping gear, the ride is plush and there’s still 1.25” of thread left under the adjusting collars. Rebound dampening is set at 3 full rotations counterclockwise; the spring does not overwhelm the dampener for my usage.

    I had read different ways of doing the job: taking the shock off from the top or the bottom, or just dropping the spring off the bottom. I did what appeared to me to be the easiest way, leaving the shock in the bike, dropping off the spring. My main concern was how to take the pressure off the linkage when removing the bolts. Here’s what I did.

    Back off adjusting collars to near top of shock using a hammer and a drift – will take a few minutes of easy work.
    Raise bike on lift; lifting arms under motor.
    Lift bike far enough to put 8” support under rear wheel; I used four pavers I had laying around; you could get by with less support, though I don’t know how much less.
    Lower bike until the bike’s weight begins to come off the lift; the rear wheel will then be raised as close to the fender as it will go.
    Tie down bike to lift.

    [​IMG]

    Remove dogbones – be careful not to cause inner tubes/races to fall out.
    Remove bottom shock bolt.
    Remove “Y” bracket – be careful not to cause inner tubes/races to fall out.
    Push up thick U-shaped piece at bottom of shock until it clears the bottom of the shock and can be pulled off shock; may have to first push rubber conical bumper up on shock shaft – high friction.
    Spring and a couple other parts drop off bottom of shock shaft.

    Take the parts containing bearings to your workbench, carefully push out the inner race/tube, lube the needle bearings (mine all had a light coating of OEM grease), carefully reinstall the inner race/tube.

    Reinstallation is reverse of the above, taking care not to push out the inner race/tube when inserting the bolts. I adjusted the lift height minutely to get the bolt holes to line up.
    Dogbone bolt nut torque is 72.5lb-ft or 100N-m.
    The front nut on the “Y” piece is 58.0lb-ft or 80N-m, however there’s no way you can get a torque wrench on that nut.
    Shock bolt torque is recommended at 37N-m by Rick at Cogent Dynamics, using medium strength threadlocker (blue Loctite); the spec in the manual is WRONG and may result in stripped threads.

    Overall, an easy operation.

    Lex
    #52
  13. eakins

    eakins Butler Maps

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  14. Eddieb

    Eddieb www.AdventureRidingNZ.co.nz

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    #54
  15. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson n00b

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    Don't mean to get off subject here, but NEW MEMBER,.. FIRST POST !, Just checking in here With my Modified 09 DR650SE, Nine G's on her so far,
    All Forest Logging roads and hills, SO FAR, EXCELLENT BIKE !,..despite the upper chain roller defect !,..lol lol :norton

    [​IMG]



    Ian
    #55
  16. Krusty ...

    Krusty ... What? Me hurry?

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    Well, Ian, to be blunt, yes, you've posted in the wrong place. But, we're DR owners- a pretty laid back crowd, mostly. We're not the sort to get overly clenched if things briefly stray once in a while. And it's always good to see an enthusiastic new member of the DR community.
    A better thread to introduce yourself would be here: The DR650 Thread (http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135295) Don't be daunted by the size of that thread. Most of the regulars are happy enough to give answers to the same old questions.

    If you click the link in my sigline, you'll find all the index topics, including one about common problems, like removing that upper roller.

    Welcome, Ian. Tell us what you think of the stock DR650SE suspension :ear...
    #56
  17. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson n00b

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    Thanks for the link, You would think I new better,..lol, I have hosted my own sites now for years.....

    Well, the roller removed it self just fine bud,..lol lol, Like I had a choice in the matter !. But the damages was light for the most part really, Filled it with packing foam and then Caped it off with JB-weld, GOOD AS NEW..lol lol,.....

    NOT !.

    I was reading up on the suspension post here, Wish I had the money to sink into it now,.. The Stock is fine for now, I mean !!, I ride hard but Not hard enough to know the real deference just yet it seems..

    I will more then likely do something about it before to log for sure,. This site should
    give me some heads up on what the next move will be there.. I DID brace the front forks with a ProCyle Fork Brace,..SURE NOTICED THE DEFERENCE THERE !. don't know how I ever lived with out it really.

    I seem to be getting all the traction I can handle just now, But when it come down to it,
    I will do something good for the back sections as well for sure,.. Just having fun playing around right now I guess.. KILLER BIKE, I never had a Duel Sport
    that rides like this one, I'm to short for the BMW,. or I would have picked that one FAR MORE then this bike really ! even the GS 1100 Or smaller !






    Ian
    #57
  18. Krusty ...

    Krusty ... What? Me hurry?

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    Rick at Cogent Dynamics is an innovator, who has used his considerable talents improving the suspension of the DR650. Lately, he has written several posts to enlighten us about some of those improvements, particularly concerning the rear suspension. Many thanks to Adv Grifter for compiling them into one essay :bow...
    Originally Posted by NC Rick-
    "I will try to give a bit on insight into this subject. The dampers we are discussing are mostly gas charged monotube units originally designed and called DeCarbon after the inventor. This design of shock uses a full diameter damper piston running in the body and control the oil flow and thus damping using deflective disk shims over ports in the piston along with a bypass path we call "bleed". The damping force comes from a pressure difference in the damper chambers within the shock. To simplify; design considerations must account for the displacement of the shock shaft entering the shock body, compressability of the oil (actually mostly gasses trapped in the oil), and maintaining pressure within all the shock chambers above the point of where oil turns back to vapor of gasses come out of suspension. There are many other considerations such as friction and such but lets keep this simple.

    We need room in the non-compressible oil to account for the shaft displacement as well as expansion or the fluid from thermal changes. The most simple way to do this is to introduce a gas bubble into the oil. This design is called an "Emulsion" shock. The gas in any of these will be pressurized to allow for the pressure drops across the damper piston when it is in the bump direction. With the emulsion shock, the gas will become mixed with the oil in most any use forming an emulsion of gas and oil (like a foam). The disadvantage there is that the damping fluid becomes much more compressible, placing limits on the dampers performance. You can also see how the shock may be less consistent with that design. A reservoir offers the ability to separate the gas charge from the oil. The OEM DR shock uses a rubber bag in the reservoir to keep the gas segregated from the damper fluid.

    (continued)
    In the case of a shock like our Cogent Dynamics Mojave for the DR, an internal reservoir is used. At the top of this type of shock there is a dividing element (we use a piston with a special seal and low friction band) to keep the gas charge separated from the damper fluid. This is a big upgrade from the emulsion design shock. A disadvantage of any of the internal reservoir shocks is that added length is needed in the shock body. An external reservoir removes this problem allowing for more stoke and fluid volume as well as area to cool the damper.

    Cogent Dynamics manufactures shocks with remote reservoirs and has built them like that for the DR over the years. This photo shows an example of a Cogent DR shock from a few years ago:

    (continued)
    Remote reservoir shocks offer a fairly easy way to add adjustability to the damper. We can employ a system to restrict the fluid flow from the compression chamber in the shock that is being displaced by the the shock shaft as the shock is compressed by a bump. Restricting this flow provides additional damping. Another very relevant design feature is that monotube dampers can be designed with a secondary compression valving system that also takes advantage of the displaced fluid we are discussing. Having extra resistance in the compression direction can function to improve the shocks performance in many ways. By adding compression force at this auxiliary valve, we do not need to make as much at the main piston, lowering the pressure drop across the main damper piston making it harder for the cavitation bubbles to form. With a good design, we can run lower internal pressures reducing friction and extending damper fluid life.
    (continued)
    Reservoir IV
    As many of you know, Cogent Dynamics makes the total custom shocks but we also have a really good conversion of the stock DR650 shock. The remote reservoir of the OEM damper offers many of the above advantages. There are disadvantages as well but we won't delve into those in this post. The OEM shock on the dr has a form of the auxiliary compression valve as I explained however is is very simple in design due to the obvious cost constraints in the DR target price point. It also has a system to give some compression adjustability.

    Cogent Dynamics is presently undergoing design of a new remote reservoir that uses a sophisticated auxiliary valve with similar technology to our DDC valve for the forks. We intend to offer a high end DR650 shock that will represent the best damper technology and quality available for the DR650. The photo above shows a remote reservoir with both high and low speed compression adjustability which we will drop in favor of a single adjustable compression adjuster backed up by a sophisticated and tuneable auxiliary compression valve. Most of the reservoirs with high and low speed adjusters are of a very simplistic design which do not really add much ability for a rider to tune and are not making the best advantage of the possibility for performance.

    I hope this helps to demystify the reservoir thing a bit. I apologize for my poor writing skills. I left out a lot of what could be said to keep things more simple and stop my fingers from bleeding but am happy to answer questions."
    __________________
    Rick
    Cogent Dynamics Inc.
    motocd.com
    #58
  19. eakins

    eakins Butler Maps

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    heads up. Suzuki uses very little to no grease in the suspension.

    have you taken apart your rear linkages and pulled the swing-arm ever?
    if not, do it asap as you are probably light on grease.
    torque specs are in the engine sub-cat of all the nuts and bolts.
    i used mobil 1 syn grease.

    you also need grease up front at the steering head bearings but those are not as critical as the water soaked rear ones.
    #59
  20. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson n00b

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    I'm sure you are correct Eakins,..The bike is just now at 10 G's as we speak, NOT A HOLE LOT of water running on her, but I will see if I can get to the swing arm next !
    .. I have already had the tree's off, So thats a done deal !, But I will get to the swing arm A.S.A.P.. I have been spending a lot of time on DRriders.com, only there seems to be
    more Joking around there then real repairs, But I still earn much on the site, THANKS FORE HELP HERE !






    Ian
    #60