DR650SE Index Topic #6- TIRES, TUBES & WHEELS

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by Krusty ..., Nov 4, 2010.

  1. trailrider383

    trailrider383 867-5309

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2008
    Oddometer:
    3,778
    Location:
    NP, ID
    Here are the part numbers for bearings, seals, etc for DR650 1996 and newer. I got the bearings from a bearing supplier. About the same cost as OEM but with seals on both sides so they last longer than the OEM with only one side sealed. And for those of you with 2007 and older versions I added the rear axle lock nut part number so you don't have to mess with the cotter pin. See my other post for part numbers for the rear cush drive bearing and seal.

    Front wheel bearings: SKF 6003 2RSJEM
    Front wheel seal: 09284-23001
    Rear wheel bearings: SKF 6204 2RSJEM
    Rear wheel seal brake side: 09283-26019
    Lock nut from 2008 and newer: 08319-2118a<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
    #21
  2. trailrider383

    trailrider383 867-5309

    Joined:
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    NP, ID
    On my 07 DR650 with 12,300 miles I noticed some slop in the cush drive hub. If you grab the top of the sprocket with one hand and push towards the spokes and the bottom with the other hand and pull out away from the spokes and get a fair amount of movement it may be time to replace the six drive cushions. I took mine apart and looked at the seal in the cush drive hub and you could see that the double lips were wore down almost smooth. You could put thewheel spacer in and there was no drag from the seal. Which means it wasn't sealing like it should. The bearing in the hub is right behind that seal and doesn't have a seal of it's own on that side of the bearing. So any dirt getting by that outside seal is going right into the ball bearings. The bearing felt fine, but I bought a new one that is sealed on both sides anyway. So if you get a lot of play in the cushions it is putting a lot of extra force on that bearing in the hub and then it also wears out the seal. It doesn't really seem possible to me that there would be play if the bearing is still good, but there is. If you think about it when you tighten the axle it all becomes a solid piece. The left side head of the axle tightens up against the swingarm, spacer, inner race of cush hub bearing, spacer between cush hub bearing and left wheel bearing, spacer in wheel hub and right wheel bearing, spacer, swingarm and axle nut.

    Here are a couple of pictures of an old cushion compared to a new cushion. New is on the right. The Suzuki part numbers are 09283-34003 for the seal, 64651-32E00 for the cushions x 6, and the double sealed bearing I got from a bearing house is an SKF 6205 2RSJEM made in USA.

    [​IMG]

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    #22
  3. Midpack

    Midpack Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Oddometer:
    163
    Location:
    Las Cruces, NM
    I've previously run Kenda 760s which are inexpensive and do great here on the sandy southern NM terrain. Drawbacks are pretty slick on street especially is damp and super stiff sidewalls hindering tire repair out in the field.
    Considering this when replacing rubber on my new DR in 08 I went with MT21s working great in the sand and dirt while easily levered on and off in the boonies. An added benefit is surprising sport tourers on the twisties. Mileage about 3000 on rear and 4000 front. I did a 970 mile 3 day ride up to the Mora / Toas area with some friend from El Paso and Las Cruces so I put the origina Trail Wings on because of the extensive Hwy travel. About 90 miles of it was rocky dirt forest roads with quit a few long river rock climbs and was surprised how well they worked while being quite and smooth riding. Already picked up a spare front and hopefully rear as to be able to switch back and forth better.

    '' Progress isn't accomplished by early risers, but by lazy people looking for an easier way to do things"by ?
    #23
  4. bumblebee1

    bumblebee1 All bikes are dirt bikes

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2008
    Oddometer:
    1,431
    Location:
    Ottawa
    I have experimented with a gs400 bike first with DS tires.
    I tried the Shinko 244 but found them loud, slippery and swaying on asphalt, even the dry stuff.
    Since there is about 60 miles of tarmac to travel before the trails, street wear and performance is a strong consideration.
    I didn't want an 80/20 tire that would be useless on a wet dirt road.
    I fitted a Trailwing 42 4.10-18 on the rear and loved it. The heavier bike just dug in and grabbed with the narrow tire. Allas, the tire was discontinued in that size.
    The next try was front and rear Cheng Chin c186 trials tires. 2.75f and 3.50r. A great combo but the rear wore out fast. Maybe got 4500km on a rear. The street ride was great and the grip on gravel and dirt was surprizing. The small knobs are spaced close enough together to give a smooth ride on asphalt. The sipes(small cuts on knob) help to grip in the rain (I was told).
    For the DR, I tried the K270 front and rear but hated then on the road. I went to a trials c186 front and a Trailwing TW302 rear and am pleased with the result. The rear grips well on asphalt, even when leaning hard in curves. It has a srong sidewall for riding two up without flex in the curves and is quiet and smooth enough for long asphalt rides. Combined with the C186 Cheng shin front, the bike handles well in all situations. When riding on wet or loose gravel, the front stays planted and the rear can slide out like a flat track bike, when wanted. It's a blast.
    On wear, the Trailwing doesn't last as long as I would have expected for a dual compound tire. I might get 6000km out of it.
    Now for the C186 front, it's a real nice all around tire. The only issue I have had with it was the fast cupping wear one day when doing some hard braking over and over again on asphalt.
    This led to a discovery as to the reason for cupping.
    Most of you probably know this but the cupping is caused by hard braking.:huh d'uh.
    So I began braking with my rear brake only when on asphalt. Now my front brake is always covered and I prepare ahead of time to do this. On dirt or in a fast stop, I have both brakes going but otherwise, I'm back to rear only.
    I put on a new trials tire last summer and rode about 4000km so far on it. I swear it has hardly any wear. As soon as I notice some cupping, I will reverse it on the rim. This should help it. I will also re-groove the sipes with a blade when they disapear.

    So that is my experience with tires.
    #24
  5. eakins

    eakins Butler Maps

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Oddometer:
    21,816
    Location:
    Fort Collins, Colorado
    i've tried alot of different DS tires.
    mich T63 are my next pair.
    they are getting great reviews for the price.
    #25
  6. Xplorr

    Xplorr hoi polloi

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2008
    Oddometer:
    320
    Location:
    Montucky
    I somehow got interested in putting an 18" on my relatively new-to-me DR650; and then as I looked into it, interest became obsession. I was confounded by how easy some made it seem and how little specific info there was on something that was supposed to be so easy. So here is my saga, er.. write up: I hope it helps someone. I have no great understanding of motorcycles, and I make no claims of expertise what so ever, at all. I consulted a friend of mine who owns a shop, and knows WAY more than me, several times to make sure I wasn't doing something unsafe to the bike/wheel. So fairwarning, if you know a lot or bore easily, move on :D.

    I was lead to believe that a dr350 wheel was a 'plug and play' solution to an 18" rear, so I set out to track down a such a wheel. Turns out, this is only partially true. The DR250's and DR350's both had models with hubs compatable to the DR650, but a person really wants the CUSH DRIVE. This is feature is found on 1990-95 DR250SE and 1990-96 DR350SE models (except the 'T' model). The hub part # is 64111-15D00. The non 'SE' model does not have a cush drive, and the rim and spoke set is different (trust me on this). A useful tool I found in my travels was the Babbit's parts site: you can find a part number, and then check what other bikes use that same part number and therefor crosscheck what bikes/years share parts. FWIW, ThumperTalk has the absolute lowest priced Suzuki OEM parts I could find on the web.

    So I found a wheel on E-bay, and ordered it up. The spokes had a lot of what I assume was salt corrosion, so I figured I would replace the spokes. On the advice of people smarter than myself, I took a few steps at this point, before reaching for the bolt cutters. First, measure the off-set of the hub/rim on each side to make sure it gets back to the same spec. Second, make note of the [first] four spokes and their positions in the hub/rim, so when you go to re-lace the rim, its that much easier. I used colored zip ties. Third, save a few of each size spokes, for backup-- Suzuki only sells spoke sets (36).

    Once I got my wheel, I decided that it needed some cleaning up. After the aforementioned considerations, and spoke removal, I took the hub and rim to friend's shop with a bead blaster, and, well.. bead blasted em. Then I buffed them with a pad on my die grinder. Cleaned em up quite nice it think:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    PARTS SIDENOTE: before I bought the 18" wheel, I looked up part numbers for both the 250/350 se wheel and the stock 650se wheel and found that most of the associated parts are interchangable; with the following exceptions: rim (obviously), hub, brake disc, spoke set, and cush bumpers. the other part numbers are the same. So bearings, spacers, the axle, etc. for the 650 work for the 250/350se wheel. I wanted to keep my original wheel mostly intact, in case this whole experiment goes horribly wrong, so for my new wheel I ordered a new spoke set, new sealed wheel bearings, and cush bumpers. Turns out, the cush bumpers on my stock wheel fit better than the ones I ordered for the new wheel. The sealed Moose wheel bearings are part# A25-1256, and are compatible with the DR250se, 350se, 650se.
    [​IMG]

    To summarize, if you found the wheel, didn't need new spokes, and wanted to use your 650 bearings and cush pads, you are go to go, and now about here:
    [​IMG]

    So now we get to the brake disc issue. The disc from the 250/350 wheel is smaller and has different fasteners. 250 Hub:
    [​IMG]
    The mounting holes from each disc match up, but the 650 disc has a recess in both the disc and the hub:
    [​IMG]

    The reason why this is a problem, is that the 650 screws need a recess because of this:
    [​IMG]

    My solution was to shim with washers that fit both the disc recess and fastener shoulder, of these , the 2 serrated lock washers seemed the perfect solution:
    [​IMG]

    So now we look like this:
    [​IMG]
    And this:
    [​IMG]
    And this:
    [​IMG]

    OK, so now the wheel is good to go. The next thing is the tire. I really wanted to try a Mefo super explorer which is a 140/80-18 tire. People are talking about getting 6-9K miles on ktm 990's and the like, so I figure I should be able to get crazy milage on a DR. Also, I really like the tread; very similar to the heidenau K60, which I've tried but crappy mileage.

    ANyWho, here's the wrap-up kids if you are still awake: The new wheel/tire raised the rear end 1" and is about 3 lbs heavier than the 17" with a mefo explorer. It looks badass, if that's what you are into. It also raised the gearing. (I had wanted to lower my gearing, even when the stock wheel was on the bike.) I put a 14 tooth front sprocket on to (a) get some more room between the tire and the swing arm, (b) to lower the gearing. Lowering the gearing to a 14t only maybe got me back to stock, now I have to go lower. Also, I need to add some links to my chain if I want to go with a bigger sprocket in the back. Here's some pics of the bike with the 18":
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    I'll have to put some mileage on this thing to see if the trouble was worth it. Another issue to consider, the 650 rim is wider than the 18", so a 140/80 is a big tire, and a PITA to spoon on and mess with.

    Happy trails, Cheers, matt
    #26
  7. BergDonk

    BergDonk Old Enough to Know Better

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Oddometer:
    5,302
    Location:
    Snowy Mountains Oz
    I got a 2.5 x 18" from John Titman Racing here in Oz. He also supplied a set of heavy gauge stainless spokes cut to size, and the rim drilled accordingly too. Bit $xxcy, but simple enough to lace the stock hub, and much stronger. My initial reasoning for doing this was primarily that the big trip to the Simmo and Kimberly happening soon would be accompanying bikes with 18" back wheels only and this would economise on spares, and 18s are a bit easier to come by in outback Oz if required. The raising of the rear 1/2" was good too for ground clearance.

    I fitted and balanced a Mitas 130/18 E07 and got 7,000 kms before I scrapped it after a cut carcass and puncture. Maybe 2,000 kms left. It was mated with a balanced MT21 front. I've swapped them for another E07 and 606 front.

    The E07 seems to get traction OK most antwhere, but is not real good for side grip in slop. Good compromise though, like the DR. The MT21 just worked too, and would fit one again. Its good that the MT21s are unidirectional too, as they scallop up a bit and need to be turned around. the 606 is directional. we shall see...

    Balancing is good, and recommended.

    Steve
    #27
  8. plugeye

    plugeye unforgiven

    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Oddometer:
    4,884
    Location:
    Garland, Texas
    another 18 inch conversion here.
    dr250 wheel all that was required was new cushions & used the dr250 bolts for the dr650 brake rotor.
    brake rotor removal tip: use a torch & impact driver to pull rotor bolts.
    they are saturated in loctite.
    #28
  9. ER70S-2

    ER70S-2 Long timer

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    Sep 30, 2009
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    Location:
    SE Denver-ish
  10. Kranked

    Kranked Zen Master

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2006
    Oddometer:
    37
    Location:
    northern Ontario, Canada
    45% off of tires at G. Bourque in New Brunswick. http://www.gbourque.com/

    I purchased a rear Kenda Trakmaster for $46.00 from G. Bourque - compare that to $85, the "discounted price" from my local Suzuki/Honda dealer.

    'Slow' shipping since they order from the warehouse in Quebec, have to send it to New Brunswick, then ship it to the destination, in my case Ontario. Only took 11 days to receive the box of stuff and tire.

    Awesome prices at G. Bourque, I think I'll try a set of Michelin T-63, next, for only $114.00 :clap
    #30
  11. Eggsontoast

    Eggsontoast Adventurer

    Joined:
    May 18, 2010
    Oddometer:
    66
    Location:
    Dad's sack
    Some interesting write ups.

    I bought myself the DR just over a year ago and it was fitted with a new set of Michelin Anakees which were very good on the road in all conditions. The front has lasted me 11,000 miles and the rear lasted roughly half of that, although both rear sets received punctures so would have lasted abit longer, judging by the amount of tread left.:*sip*

    Changed those over to some Pirelli MT21's as I fancied something much more off road orientated. Other than they wear out rather fast I'm pleased and at the same time amazed at how much grip you can really get out of them on the road, very good off-road but as is to be expected the MPG drops off considerably which cought me out but that's another story...:lol3
    One thing I would say is try and get as close to the standard speed index as possible, you may never hit a ton but it's good to know that whilst the bike can hit that speed, you've got a tire which can deal with it all the same; as it turns out the 120 does whereas the 130 brickwalls at 80-85 if I remember correctly.

    I'd like to try the T63's but realistically I will change back to the Anakees and either buy or build myself a set of wheels for that quick change over from road to offroad: still debating on which way to go...

    Regarding the wheel bearings, if your careful you can actually pry the seal off and pack them with some lithium grease, not too much mind or they'll overheat.:bmwrider

    Pat
    #31
  12. OsoADV

    OsoADV Oso

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    Would you guys say an 18" rear is a good way to raise the rear for a heavy/tall rider?
    #32
  13. shu

    shu ...

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    Feb 23, 2010
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    1,193
    Location:
    Colorado
    Don't know.... but I have these questions:
    -Wouldn't that raise the bike barely a half inch?
    - Would that make much difference?

    .........shu
    #33
  14. NordieBoy

    NordieBoy Armature speller

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    Dec 2, 2006
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    Same as dropping the forks half an inch.

    3mm makes a difference you can feel.
    #34
  15. BergDonk

    BergDonk Old Enough to Know Better

    Joined:
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    Snowy Mountains Oz
    Like shu says, 1/2" only, but helped me. I also fitted a longer shock and forks and taller seat and lower footpegs. I was after ground clearance and a size of tyre that is easier to find outback here, and one that the XRs and KTMs I'm travelling with will have when we head out next month. It also changes the gearing, roughly equivalent to a 16t cs from the stock 15, or an extra 3 teeth up back.

    Steve
    #35
  16. OsoADV

    OsoADV Oso

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    I realize it's only 1" more than stock rim diameter, so half of that comes to 1/2", but I wasn't sure if the tires made a difference as well or if they were the same height as 17" options.

    If an 18" rear wheel really raises it 1", that could make a big difference for me. Right now I feel like I am sliding backward at freeway speeds (wind is a factor, but the bike is squatting a good bit with me on it). My hands start to get tired after 10 or 15 miles because I am holding myself up toward the front of the bike rather than just sitting in place.

    I'm gonna install raising links and a stiff rear spring first and see what happens from there.
    #36
  17. Xplorr

    Xplorr hoi polloi

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2008
    Oddometer:
    320
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    Montucky
    Hi c2c4c,

    I measured to the top of the rear rack, with a mefo explorer 17" and the 18" which has a 140/80-18, the difference was 1" exactly.

    cheers, matt
    #37
  18. NordieBoy

    NordieBoy Armature speller

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    Just the spring will keep the rear up higher.
    #38
  19. Krusty ...

    Krusty ... What? Me hurry?

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    From what I've read, 18 inch tires are much easier to find in many countries while 17 inchers are rare. Might make a big difference on that tour of South America...
    #39
  20. OsoADV

    OsoADV Oso

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    Hmm, good point.

    Any idea if 21 inchers are easy to find?
    #40