DR650SE Index Topic #6- TIRES, TUBES & WHEELS

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by Krusty ..., Nov 4, 2010.

  1. ER70S-2

    ER70S-2 Long timer

    Joined:
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    Oddometer:
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    SE Denver-ish
    Somewhere back in the DR650 thread, another inmate said it's easy to double seal our stock single seal wheel bearings. And since the stock bearings have a very good reputation, unlike some of the aftermarket replacements, I filed the info in my head until I decided to change mine at 20,700 ish. I re-used the old seals, added a little extra grease to the new bearings and ended up with high quality dual seal OEM bearings. For the record: I know there are high quality, low cost, dual seal, aftermarket replacements...........somewhere. I just ordered from RonAyers and never left the house. :deal

    Here are the pics. :freaky

    [​IMG]

    There's a ledge under the seal, work the pick past it. BergDonk comes in from the outside edge with a small screwdriver, it also has a lip.
    [​IMG]

    Gently twist and pull and out pops the seal.

    [​IMG]

    Here you can see both bearing lips that you're working the pick past. Pretty clean inside, remember, this bearing has over 20,000 miles.

    [​IMG]

    Crap!! :2cry

    [​IMG]

    But the previous inmate had said, 'they might kink and are easy to straighten'. He's right. I used a flat punch small enough to sit flat on the metal surface. I did NOT use a hammer, I just leaned on it and worked it around until I ended up with this. Even with macro photography, I can't find the ding. :D

    [​IMG]

    I filled the new bearings with grease before installing them, and used a little too much. Aerocycle's photo in post #85 below shows how it should be done; run your finger around the bearing, like caulking the bathtub.

    This is what I found during the next tire change. No damage, just a little expansion past the seal.

    [​IMG]

    :beer
    #81
  2. ER70S-2

    ER70S-2 Long timer

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    The DR comes without rim locks, not usually a problem. But some guys air down. This might let the tire slip on the rim, tearing the valve stem out of the tube. Here's how to know if this is happening.

    As delivered:

    [​IMG]

    Back the valve stem nut off the rim and up against the valve cap. Finger tight works. Notice that there is room around the hole in the rim to allow the stem to tip, you might have to file the hole oblong. This one needs a little more clearance. If your valve stem tips to the side, you need a rim lock or more tire pressure. And straighten the stem as soon as possible, or next time you'll get a flat. :beer

    [​IMG]
    #82
  3. ER70S-2

    ER70S-2 Long timer

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    These pics are for a DR650, but is how many wheel bearings are removed (without a spacer), like your trailer wheels.

    This is what the bearings and spacer look like in both the front and rear wheel, although a real spacer is longer. The spacer is the only thing that keeps your hub from imploding when you tighten the axle, don't forget it.

    Edit: these two bearings are the same size. :huh --------->.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    This is what you'll see when looking into the bearing in the wheel. There's no way to get a punch on the bearing from the other side, yet. :wink:

    [​IMG]

    Just take your punch, lever it against the side of the bearing and push the spacer to the side. It might take a good push, but it will slide over (no hammer). Notice the nice round corners on the inner bearing race, you have to push the spacer over far enough to give the punch an edge to hit. Probably not quite this far:

    [​IMG]

    Next, grind a nice flat end on your punch, with good, sharp, square corners. Don't skip this step. :deal

    Now just flip the wheel over, give the punch one or two light taps. This will free the spacer and you can now work the punch around the bearing race......tap.....tap....tap....tap....tap.... If the first few taps don't loosen the spacer, turn the wheel over and push the spacer to the other side, flip wheel, tap....tap....
    And remember where the seals came out. :freaky

    [​IMG]

    Edit to add: Never hit the inner bearing race when installing bearings, tap around the outer race only. A large socket can usually be found the correct diameter to fit the bearing. When tapping on the socket, you'll have to work the hammer around the edge or you'll tip the bearing in the bore, watch what you're doing. You shouldn't hit a socket directly with a hammer, use a wood block as a cushion.
    #83
  4. Aerocycle

    Aerocycle Been here awhile

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    Excellent, this is exactly what I did yesterday. I just didn't know how to word it on here to help others out! great job ER70S!

    I might add to it that upon re-installing new bearings, install the right side first, flip the wheel over, insert spacer, and install the left bearing. BUT MAKE NOTE!!! the left bearing will not and is not supposed to go fully into its place and seat. There is supposed to be clearance. I didn't notice this the first time and had to tap my bearing out slightly so the the spacer is snug inside, but not loose. I hope its adequate.

    This it out of the manual, sorry about the blur.
    [​IMG]
    #84
  5. Aerocycle

    Aerocycle Been here awhile

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    Okay, I'm outside in my shop packing all the bearings. I find the needle bearings to be specifically difficult. I popped the seals off my new koyo's and the grease was decent, but I would feel better packing them myself knowing there is plenty, but not too little. :norton

    So here is a picture of my bearing I just packed with waterproof belray. I think this photo will help all of us with limited bearing packing to know if we are doing good enough. I think this picture has the right amount of grease but I need to know from you seasoned bearing packers... :freaky I packed it full using my palm, then wiped out excess with my finger down to the level of the bearing cage on both sides.

    Is this ENOUGH? of too LITTLE?? :ear General concensus is not any more than pictured here... :arg

    [​IMG]
    #85
  6. Aerocycle

    Aerocycle Been here awhile

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    Buy bearings from a local cearing supplier, save's money and usually gets you knowledgable people with quality bearings... :evil

    Here is a picture of my sprocket carrier bearing right after I pulled the seal off... Wow, did someone pack dirt in there???? :lol3

    This bearing is in failure mode... :kboom:muutt:flush

    [​IMG]
    #86
  7. eakins

    eakins Butler Maps

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    i posted this in the big thread but put it here too.
    here are the bearing tools for those who wish to use them.
    i've punched out bearings on the past just fine but have found using the proper tools makes the job faster & easier.

    http://pitposse.com/whbereset.html
    http://pitposse.com/beraandsedr.html
    http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/43/-/171/989/-/20342/Tusk-Bearing-Remover/WHEEL+BEARING+PULLER

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArFC3xPHhGA&feature=player_embedded#!

    remove outer black seals w/ flathead and such on both sides
    heat area on the hub around the bearing to cause it to expand some
    remove bearings w/ tool & remove spacer
    clean up hubs
    new bearings should be checked for proper grease
    chill new bearings in freezer to slightly shrink
    lightly grease edge of new bearing
    heat up hub to slightly expand
    tap in new bearing on 1 side. a heated hub and chilled bearing goes in easy.
    insert spacer and install the other side bearing
    install seals. i like to grease between the sealing lips.
    torque wheel to proper spec to properly seat bearings
    #87
  8. ER70S-2

    ER70S-2 Long timer

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    I just replaced the 3 bearings in my rear wheel/cush hub. If you can run a hammer and punch, you're in. The two wheel bearings tap out from the opposite side like any other wheel bearing, shown above.

    There is one seal in the cush hub and one in the wheel (right side).

    But I wanted to remove my cush hub bearing for a possible re-use (emergency spare maybe). So I made a puller, nothing but threaded rod, a socket, some washers, 3 nuts and a used piece of exhaust tubing large enough for the bearing to slide into; 2-1/4" I.D. This pulled the cush hub bearing easily.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Note: put the flat side of the socket against the bearing so it isn't pushing on the seal, not as shown here.

    [​IMG]

    Our front and rear wheel assemblies are a set of solid steel spacers, from the axle head, through the swingarm and wheel hub to the axle nut. If any piece is missing, the axle won't tighten properly. Most common mistake on the DR, is forgetting the spacer (#8). Also watch for #2 (when replacing wheel bearings) and #19, as it's hiding in the cush hub.

    [​IMG]
    #88
  9. justscoutin

    justscoutin Been here awhile

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    anyone got pics of shinko 700's on a dr? and what size are you running for the rear, 4.60 or 5.10? thanks.
    #89
  10. sagedrifter

    sagedrifter Southern Explorer

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    I prefer the 5.10 size in a 700.

    Sent from my GT-S5690L using Tapatalk
    #90
  11. Boondoggle

    Boondoggle Whom it May Concern

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    Just switching to a set of MEFO explorers for the first time, and I don't feel good about the way it's seated.

    The tire is at about this depth all the way around:

    [​IMG]

    It just doesn't look right to me.

    I've done the air down/break it/lubricate/air up/air WAY up routine several times, and so far this is it.

    I had to put the wheel back on to move the bike, so I did the "make a wish" test, and rode it half a mile or so (sloooooowly) and it doesn't feel out of round or anything, didn't shift visibly.

    Is this just what they are supposed to look like?

    Thanks,

    Lance
    #91
  12. ER70S-2

    ER70S-2 Long timer

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    There is a rubber line directly above the word MEFO in your pic. Measure the distance from the rim to that line at different points around the wheel, it should be the same.

    A tire I recently mounted took well over 60 pounds of air and bouncing on the floor like I was trying to bend the rim. This was after the soap, over inflate, deflate, soap, over inflate, etc.

    Other tires have a line right at the rim.

    [​IMG]
    #92
  13. Kommando

    Kommando Long timer

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    I'm at a little over 5K miles now on a rear Kenda K761. The half-depth center grooves are now about gone, but I'm going to re-groove them to the depth of the other grooves to regain some traction, as there is a LOT of rubber left on this tire. This may get me another 3K miles or so. 8K+ miles out of a REAR dualsport tire that works decently for $60-70US is a pretty good deal, IMO. I may even open up the tread on the side, for better offroad traction, even though this tire has done pretty well for my usage...about 75%+ of 45MPH+ pavement with about 10% of severe sugarsand and other, less severe, offroad usage. The other pavement usage is on slower roads around town. Considering that the tire was $60-something US and I've already gotten 5K+ miles out of it, a lot of which was 2up with luggage, experimenting with re-grooving isn't going to break the bank. If it works well, when this one fully wears out I'll buy another rear K761 and groove it full-depth like this from new.

    This tire has been pretty predictable, even if not providing ultimate grip offroad of a knobby or pavement grip of a sportbike tire. I wanted an inexpensive tire that would get me where I want to go, safely and inexpensively. This tire has delivered. Even riding wet grass, roots, pine needles, crushed rock, gravel, clay, sandy loam, light mud, and sugarsand, this tire could still propel the big DR anywhere I wanted to go. On pavement, it was stable at anything close to a legal speed. I don't balance, run rimlocks, or practice voodoo. I check my pressure about weekly...25fr & 28rr onroad. I plan to try running slight softer.

    For some reason, the FRONT K761 is not as well-liked, but I haven't tried one. I currently run a silly-aggressive AMS Sand Snake MX knobby up front that makes a D606 look like a touring tire. I don't think it will last long, and it's so-so on pavement, so I'm probably going with an MT21, or similar, up front next. I like the steering ability and straight-line stability of aggressive pizza-cutter knobs in the sugarsand here, but I'd like to get 8-10K miles with decent pavement manners for $60 or less/tire.
    #93
  14. Kommando

    Kommando Long timer

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    Here's that K761 I mentioned before. First, a silent film...

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/dl2gfe2nDYM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    and...

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/4eHnEN0Dd5Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    I used a #4 head and blade that came with the grooving iron. The original side-to-side grooves in this tire were a bit wider than the #4, but I think the vertical grooves were about the size of the #4 or slightly narrower. I'm ordering a skinnier head and blade to cut narrower grooves, and several wider head and blade sets to cut bigger grooves on the next K761 when I first get it. By keeping the center grooves narrow but just making them full-depth, then adding WIDE grooves to the off-center blocks, and leaving the outside 1/3 of the very outside blocks solid rubber, I can have a $60-something rear tire that lasts 8-10K miles, does well on wet or dry pavement with decent cornering stability, and has some decent thrust and lateral stability offroad in sand and mud when I air it down.
    #94
  15. acesandeights

    acesandeights Asperger

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    I had purchased Michelin T63 front/rear tires not long after getting my DR but they were stolen before I mounted them. That left me running the stock tires for 3500 miles or so. I'm ready to buy tires again and the T63 are on inter-galactic backorder I guess. I was considering the Pirelli MT21 but the weight rating is considerably less than the T63. The DR being relatively heavy anyway, I'm wondering what the bias is if anyone knows (don't have a scale available right now) and whether the relatively low weight rating of the Pirelli will amount to much. Will it be an issue of wear and heat, or will it be a safety issue? I'm not concerned if there is close to a 50/50 split in weight bias front to rear on a DR650, but if the rear of the bike accounts for a significant portion of the weight I'll be close to max weight rating.

    Hope that makes sense, and if anyone runs MT21 front and rear, what do you think of them?

    Thanks.
    #95
  16. BergDonk

    BergDonk Old Enough to Know Better

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    MT21 are fine on the front in my experience, but I do prefer the Scorpion Rally, less cupping, and more stability in the soft stuff. The MT21s are non directional and will cup, and need turning at least once to optimise wear, preferably a couple of times. I haven't tried an MT21 rear yet.

    Steve
    #96
  17. greener556

    greener556 Been here awhile

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    Does anyone know if a 140 tire too wide for a stock rear DR650 rim??
    #97
  18. acesandeights

    acesandeights Asperger

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    Thanks!
    #98
  19. NordieBoy

    NordieBoy Armature speller

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    The weight rating doesn't mean much at all.

    The MT21 is sweet on the front.
    Grit covered hardpack and there'll be no traction in the rear. The compound is too hard.

    If you like rear wheel steering however, it'll be fine.
    #99
  20. acesandeights

    acesandeights Asperger

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    I do like rear wheel steering, thanks! Actually, I've found the DR to be a bit heavy to be thrown around quite like a dirt bike, but I guess I'm giving the MT21 front/rear a try. :D