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Discussion in 'Battle Scooters' started by Yellow Jacket, Nov 15, 2011.
Yep, same engine/trans stuff, except heavier and a 12" rear tyre.
The Elite 250 is an 85, all stock except for Dr Pulley variator, clutch, and 21g sliders. All of that was mainly replaced due to worn out parts. I suspect it'll run the 1/8 somewhere in the thirteens, its definitely quicker than the buddy now, just not sure by how much. I'd like to get it out there just to see how it does, since the engine is going to be transplanted this fall, either into the Ruckus, or a tube frame drag scoot.
Twist and Gone races are tomorrow! I've got my trailer almost finished, so I need to push to get it done tonight, then I can load up and haul the Elite 250 out there and see what it does. I'll be trying to line up against as many stock-ish scooters as possible during the practice runs, so I can get their times on my timeslips.
I pulled the top box and windscreen off the scooter, to drop some weight, and maybe get improved aero. I'm in a bit of a money crunch right now, so I am thinking instead of swapping the engine into the Ruckus, I may start stripping down the Elite over the winter, and make it a dedicated drag scoot, until I have the funds for both the Ruckus swap, and a new drag bike. Another possiblity is seeing if I can dig up a a non-running older 50cc scoot for a song, and transplant the 250's engine into a lighter frame.
I have never seen a scooter at the dragstrip. I drag race cars (currently an S10 truck) and it runs in the high twelves. It has a well built 4.3L V6, with a four barrel carb and race cam, and also has a 4:10 Posi rear axle. It has been built to the point where it's drivability on the street has been compromised. It has a 5 speed manual and Centerforce clutch. Because the redline has been increased about 1500 RPM, and the powerband has been moved up in the RPM range, you have to rev it up and slip the clutch leaving a stoplight on the street, and blip the throttle to shift gears. It also has a max cruising speed of 55 mph in fifth gear, due to the lowered gearing. Only the first 3 gears are used on the track.
The most important part to getting good times on the dragstrip is a good reaction time at the light. That's where many amateur racers blow it. My Vulcan 750 runs very close to the same times as my truck, high twelves. I'm assuming you mean 1/8 mile for a 150cc scooter running in the nines. A stock GSXR 1000 runs mid tens in the 1/4. And the CVT transmission of a scooter would further limit it's acceleration. Some beginners run fully automatic transmissions, but most others who run automatics use manual valve bodies, so they can be shifted manually, at or near redline in each gear.
There is no way to calculate what any vehicle would do in the 1/4 mile based on 1/8 mile times. What happens in the second half of the run is completely different from the first half.
Prepare to launch !
Got some more 1/8 mile times.
My lightly modded Elite 250: 2.584 60', 11.975 @ 53.39 MPH
I suspect a stock one would run low to mid 12s.
A Piaggio MP3 250: 2.853 60', 12.193 @ 55.09
Vespa GTV300: 2.609 60', 11.620 @ 56.63
Given about 100 more feet, I'm guessing the MP3 would have caught me. I think the weight of both bikes handicapped them on the start, but more power resulted in their higher trap speeds. The Dr. Pulley clutch probably helped my launch a bit, too.
The Vespa knocked me out of my class race. In King of the Hill, I ended up paired off against a souped up Cushman in the first round, and it ran in the 9's.
Generally a conversion factor of 1.58 is used, but actual times can vary from 1.5 to 1.6 depending on the vehicle.
Eg, if your S10 does 12.9, then the time on the 1/8 should be around 8.16.
high 12's and barely driveable on the street? Sounds like you should have went with a car instead of a truck, high 12's is pretty slow.
stock gsxr 600's run mid 10's but drag racing a sport bike is sort of a waste of what the bike was intended for unless someone just took it out to the track for the hell of it.
Completely wrong. You can sit at the green light as long as you like if you're only worried about your ET's(like a test and tune night, run what you brung, whatever) not the actual race.
The timer doesn't start until you roll off the front beam, just like when you have to cross onto the beam to start the tree.
A good ET, comes from a good 60 ft time.
First, sounds like this guy doesn't know what hes talking about. 4.10s aren't a ton of gear on the street. My sisters s10 came with 4.10s stock. No idea what that babbling was about and the transmission. Id imagine that's all motor times. Not too many cars NA will run in the 12's. (excluding v8 performance cars) The 4.3 heads definitely hold the motor back. Its a good truck motor, not the greatest performance motor platform. And, as I said, launching a truck for a good 60 ft time, let alone a stick shift truck, isn't the easiest.
High 12s is definitely not slow. It is dead even with the new 2014 Corvette, and it's a carbureted 4.3 V6. It is totally driveable on the street, you just need to slip the clutch and rev it a little more when leaving a stop. Top cruising speed is low because of the very low gearing, to prevent over revving the engine. Oh, and you have to slow down a little more for curves and turns, due to the excessive positive caster built into the front end. The rear axle came off a 4WD Blazer, and originally had 3:88 gears. I had it rebuilt and regeared by a local shop. I don't work on gears. Unlike engines, working on gears requires specialized skills and tools.
As for the transmission thing, an automatic transmission designed for drag racing does not shift itself, you have to shift it manually. These transmissions use a ratchet shifter. Just easier to shift, and no clutch. But even with a high stall speed converter, you have to launch it at half or less the engine RPM as a manual shift. Easier, but not as much fun. My way is to deep stage, and launch it at 5500 RPM (well above what any converter can do) I have the pad removed from the clutch pedal, and have it held down with the edge of my foot. I just slide my foot to the left and dump it while flooring the throttle. Third gear puts me across the finish line under redline.
As far as reaction time, you are correct. Both E.T. and trap speed are from the time you break the beam till you cross the finish line.
GSXR600 - 11.11 @ 132.33 mph
GSXR1000 - 10.01 @ 141.9 mph
lol where are you getting those times from? they are all way off and the fact you think reaction times have anything to do with your times shows you do not know much about drag racing.
i guess as long as you are having fun that is all that is important.
the '14 Corvette is a low 12 second car
a 280hp turbocharged Syclone or Typhoon 4.3 ran 13.6... show a timing slip of your 12 second 4.3 and prove us doubters wrong
12s from a Corvette.
Is that all?@!?!?@?!
Shit I can RUN faster than that......
Scooter times please!
12s from a Corvette.
Is that all?@!?!?@?!
Shit I can RUN faster than that......
Scooter times please!
Yea. like a dial indicator and a torque wrench.
And you call yourself a Technician. I'm betting it's more like "lube tech" if anything at all.
Terrible launch technique. The more I read from you the more I am convinced you are just some internet troll sitting in a room who has never done any of the things you claim in your posts.
I don't know of any mechanic who works on differentials, manual transmissions, transfer cases, etc. unless that is their specialty. Same with automatic transmissions. Why do you think there are places just for automatic transmissions? However, I did manage to rebuild the 2 speed Ford-o-Matic in my '64 Fairlane. No transmission shop would touch it.
As for my terrible launch technique, it gets me into the 12s, so it works for me. I am NOT a pro racer, I do it just for fun. But I HAVE been doing it since I was a teenager, both manual and automatic.
And don't forget the Buick 3.8L V6 turbo Grand National, which outran Corvettes when it came out. I have always had V8s, only in the past few years did I become interested in V6s. The 4.3 V6 is exactly the same engine as the 5.7L V8, with 2 cylinders missing. The only bad thing about that is that it has the same reciprocating weight as the V8, with less displacement. Pistons from the 4.3 and the 5.7 are identical.
My current job is working on electronics, which I absolutely hate. I am one of only 2 guys in my department who have been trained in this rubbish, which IMO should not even be a part of working on vehicles. Fortunately it all ends for me next March, and I can't wait.
During my 20 years as an auto Tech I did everything from oil changes to engine, transmission, and yes, differential overhauls. While I recognize differentials are generally reliable and don't frequently need overhauling anymore, the design is a hundred years old and not complicated. If after all of the years you claim to have been turning wrenches you are apprehensive about shimming a ring & pinion, you aren't a tech.
Your launch technique is not the fastest way out of the hole, and is unnecessarily hard on drivetrain components.
It does not have the same reciprocating mass. It's missing two piston/rod assemblies compared to the 350 it was modeled after.
I have never worked on gears. I know a lot of mechanics that don't. They can build great engines, but send the gear work out. Get the lash just a little off on a ring and pinion and it won't last no time. Much easier to let someone with the proper skills and tools do it.
Launching and manual shift car is going to be a lot harder on driveline components than an automatic. Just no way around that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DSrX4MP_ts
What I meant was, it has the same reciprocating mass per cylinder. That means it has the same stock redline as a 5.7. You have to reduce the reciprocating weight (per cylinder) and balance it better to get the redline up. 5500 rpm has always been the stock redline for a small block Chevy. Also the same with a Harley with the same sized pistons. The 3.8 Buick would be a much better drag race V6, but getting one into an S10 would be a real hassle. Just about anything can be done, but some things just aren't worth the work and money.