Dual Battery Setup???

Discussion in 'Equipment' started by Rescue Wagon, Oct 6, 2012.

  1. Rescue Wagon

    Rescue Wagon Been here awhile

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    First is for camping and to allow me to have a little power at night with out risking a dead battery in the morning. Second, its probably an old habit, but I have always connected accessories to a secondary battery and I have plans to run a gps, ham radio, and aux lights.
    #21
  2. the kaz

    the kaz has become "FERAL"

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    Then either system will work fine....
    With an ACR system the batteries are only connected when the primary battery has a charging voltage like when the bike is running this way the dead battery cannot effect the starting of the bike. Its really not a "dual" battery system but rather a primary and a secondary. I like them better becuase in the one side dead scenario the secondary battery has a better chance of a full recharge where as an isolator may only fully charge the side that is being used for charge system voltage sencing. Alot depends on the batteries and charging system involved
    #22
  3. Rescue Wagon

    Rescue Wagon Been here awhile

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    Are you saying that the stator and regulator setup on motorcycles won't allow for the proper charging of the secondary battery if the primary is fully charged with a heat sink isolator?

    Are stators self exciting?
    #23
  4. the kaz

    the kaz has become "FERAL"

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    Most modern bikes use permanent magnet stators which are self exciting. So they produce AC voltage the moment you spin them. Does the common bike regulator have a set voltage or would it over volt without a reference voltage ? That a great question !!!!! I dunno :dunno
    Either way there is a diode type isolator for each scenerio. If the bike can control its regulated voltage without battery reference then any diode isolator will do. Hell you could build your own. If the bike needs a reference voltage then you need to get an isolator with a four smaller post. Sometimes this post is called the Exciter/reference post.
    To answer your question..... if the bike used a diode isolator with an exciter or reference circuit then yes it is possible to have the side not connected as the reference voltage to be under charged.......

    Bussman, Vanner, Surepower and ColeHersee all build isolators BUT I have never looked for small bike sized ones ? I am used to trying to deal with hundreds of amps not 10-20 :lol3 Hell we have even come to parralleling 200AMP models to get 400AMPS :D
    Maybe send the guys at Ricks stators an email with your plan and bike? They may say go for it or have a regulator that will work better for ya
    #24
  5. herrhelmet

    herrhelmet A Serious Man

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    I buy battery supplies from this place:

    http://www.powerwerx.com/batteries-chargers/battery-separator-auxiliary-batteries-100-amps.html

    Here's an example of what they sell:

    [​IMG]

    Battery Separator for Auxiliary Batteries 100 Amps

    This battery separators acts as a smart switch to connect independent battery banks only when charging voltage is present. Otherwise, they are isolated, and discharge between banks is prevented. Ideal for adding an auxiliary battery to your main battery.

    Lots more stuff if you spend some time on the site.
    #25
  6. worwig

    worwig Long timer

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    Actually, they are only turned on when the charge voltage is high enough. They don't go on and off with the key as far as I know. Though even if they did, I see no issues there.

    The diode sestems might mess up the regulator and the way is senses the charge voltage. The extra diode drop can be a real problem. Depends on the alternator design. Either way, you are going to turn some of the alternator output into heat, so the charge will be a little less efficient. An issue if you have a weak charging system.
    #26
  7. Rescue Wagon

    Rescue Wagon Been here awhile

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    I talked with www.nocousa.com and they said that no heat sink isolator will work with a motorcycle stator, so that will make the decision a little easier. Based on the relay ones I think I'm going to try the AOPEC Smart Battery Isolator and see how it goes.
    #27
  8. grandelatte

    grandelatte Consistently Inconsistent

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    Sorry to bring back this 3 months old thread, but how did it go, Rescue Wagon? Are you running two batteries now? What system did you end up with? Any feedback is appreciated.
    #28
  9. Rescue Wagon

    Rescue Wagon Been here awhile

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    No worries.

    I went with the smart battery isolator from DFNA. It's not installed yet as I haven't had the bike off the road long enough to install the trunk the second battery is going to go into, so hopefully before my big trips that start this spring I'll get it all put together. Here is the link to their site:

    http://www.dfna.info/smart-battery-isolator.html
    #29
  10. daveburton

    daveburton Been here awhile

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    Chaps I know very little about electrics as you might realise when I ask the question.

    Could I simply use 2 x Lion batteries (one to replace the original) connected in parallel such that I'll have one for camping. Could I use something like clamps to connect to the 2nd battery for easy removal from the bike. I was thinking that the secondary battery might be a good contingency for the main battery as well.

    thanks
    #30
  11. Rescue Wagon

    Rescue Wagon Been here awhile

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    You could and that would provide you more amps. The reason for the setup I'm trying to put together is to protect the battery responsible for starting the bike, so I won't get stranded by running it down which can happen if you just connect them in parallel.
    #31
  12. daveburton

    daveburton Been here awhile

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    Thanks for the response. I was thinking it would be easy and quick to rig up and I would take it off the bike if I were running anything off it at night. That way I get what's in the battery and that's it.

    I was thinking of 2 x Lion batteries due to the weight savings. Is this technology a good reliable replacement to use. I will be adv touring and am currently in Colombia.

    cheers dave
    #32
  13. yatman

    yatman Been here awhile

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    Am quite interested in the theme of this thread and would like a lighter, more powerful, efficient, and dual set of batteries...these similar style batteries are causing Boeing's 787 Dreamliner issues are they not? You're riding somewhere perhaps a very remote area and you catch on fire....freaky sh*tters...seems like we're looking for our own electrical Holy Grail
    :D
    whatdoyouallthinkaboutthat?
    #33
  14. Rescue Wagon

    Rescue Wagon Been here awhile

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    Are you referring to Lithium Ion Batteries?

    The technology has been around a long time. The military uses them for portable radios and chemical warfare agent detectors. The main issue is they don't like water.
    #34
  15. yatman

    yatman Been here awhile

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    ...am I missing something here...DaveBurton is asking of something different with Lion batteries than my query?
    and if these batteries do not like water (moisture) is a dual sport bike not going to splash some water or ride in rain..?....I'm in the Pacific North Wet....getting (myself) more questions than answers....
    #35
  16. daveburton

    daveburton Been here awhile

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    I think Lion is the same but as I said I don't know much about this stuff.
    #36
  17. Rescue Wagon

    Rescue Wagon Been here awhile

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    They are sealed, so the water only becomes an issue if the battery is damaged and water can get in.
    #37
  18. daveburton

    daveburton Been here awhile

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    Rescue Wagon, you seem to be technically competent in the field, do you believe that using Lithium Ion batteries is a logical and reliable improvement.

    Based on what I have read it looks great on paper, light and holds charge for long periods which helps for long trips when the bike gets stored for months.

    Are the batteries called Lithium Ion, LION or what. Is there an official acronym.

    Just want to make sure there are not 2 separate technologies that are getting confused.

    thanks dave
    #38
  19. URAL CT

    URAL CT Adventurer

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    <table bgcolor="#FFFFFF" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" height="352" width="658"><tbody><tr align="LEFT" valign="TOP"><td background="bcgr.jpg" width="597">12 volt and 24 volt Smart Battery Isolators with 80+ amps pass through and solid-state control
    [​IMG]
    </td><td width="8">
    </td><td align="LEFT" valign="TOP" width="242"> Battery isolator (or split charge relay) allows an auxiliary battery to be charged by the vehicle's system, yet prevents the starting battery from being run down by your equipment when the engine is off.</td></tr><tr align="LEFT" valign="TOP"><td colspan="3" height="1" width="647">
    I carry a C-pap machine with me when out traveling & camping. I use this to charge my PC925 battery after each use. It is always charging & connected to the main battery but when the main battery voltage goes down to 12.6V it disconnects the auxiliary battery. The aux battery is parasitic only until the main battery drops to 12.6V then the two are disconnected. Have been working for me since 2009.
    Cheers. (dunno why the font color is different from the post, oh well)
    CT
    </td></tr></tbody></table>
    #39
  20. Rescue Wagon

    Rescue Wagon Been here awhile

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    LION = Lithium Ion

    My experience with them is that they are lighter and smaller for the same amount of output as other battery types which is why you find them in iPods and Smartphones. They won't develop a memory like some batteries can and they are capable of being charged and discharged numerous times with little issues.

    The downside is they typical only good for two to three years and that time starts from when the battery is manufactured, so it seems like a very expensive investment when you look at the price of the LION motorcycle batteries.

    My setup is two traditional batteries, battery isolator, and battery tender to be able to camp at night and insure in the morning my bike will start and all my accessories will be connected to the second battery as well, so once the bike is turned off if I leave my Ham Radio on it will only be able to drain the second battery and not the starting battery.
    #40