Dustbin racing fairings

Discussion in 'Old's Cool' started by MODNROD, Nov 21, 2010.

  1. MODNROD

    MODNROD Cruising speed

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    Gday all.
    I can't help myself, I'm always dreaming of new projects. My latest stoooopid idea is to find out more about the old '50s "dustbin" fairings, think V8 Guzzi and IOM.
    I've Googled the house down, and found some cool info, but since some of the inmates that inhabit this side of the website have "been there done that" more than my pitiful 30years worth, I'm really hoping to find someone with personal experience with them (or good stories from their Dad!).
    Specifically, how effective are they in increasing top speed on the same bike, with then without. I'm aware of the cross-wind aero issues, just curious of the speed bottom line.
    Old photo's would be appreciated muchly! :wave
    #1
  2. MODNROD

    MODNROD Cruising speed

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    Oh yeah, sorry guys.
    The reason is coz me being in the habit of dragracing old crap that's completely unsuitable, a "dustbin" might just help get an extra 3 tenths and 3 mph.......:wink:
    #2
  3. BOOTLACE

    BOOTLACE Bikie Scum.

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    OK. You asked for it. (In the Pilbara, on a loooong night shift....)

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    Not 'old' pix, by the way. Just a cupla months old, taken at Assen, for the Centenial TT. All bikes were raced all weekend, most of them by their original riders. Twas awesome....
    #3
  4. Tim McKittrick

    Tim McKittrick Long timer

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    I looked into the dustbins a while back and still want to make one for myself..... the cross wind issue seems to have been more an issue of the amount of fairing side area in front of the bike's centerline than the actual shape of the fairing, and it's been suggested in more than one forum that adding a streamlined tail section of sufficient area would not only close up the dirty air behind the machine but reduce the side wind weirdness at the same time.

    Anyway, there aren't many fairings available out there to choose from- you would most likely have to make one from scratch for your particular application. Airtech had at least one, but it was from a 125cc MV and was very small, and they were rumored to have a larger one that they were going to make molds of, but I don't know for sure if they ever did. Evan Wilcox was making a very nice NSU replica, but it's a bit pricey at $5300, albeit beautifully crafted from aluminum.
    #4
  5. fishkens

    fishkens Long timer

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    Craig Vetter shares some findings re: tail pieces on dust bins here.
    #5
  6. Uncle Ernie

    Uncle Ernie Long timer

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    Mista Vern turned me onto pro wheel barrow racing, and I got very competitive. Truthfully, though- I didn't notice any better top speeds.


    Sure was a helluva chick magnet, though!


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  7. r50us68

    r50us68 Been here awhile

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    I also heard that Airtech was working on a dustbin from an NSU, saw a picture of it, but nothing about replicas n a couple years.
    Might want to check in with the guy (Guys?) at
    ze Last Chance Garage, Someone there has put a dustbin on their /5
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    Then there is someone who was one on their /2
    http://www.rockerboxer.com/albums/album_image/1520939/397040.htm
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    And there might be a chance that Brooks Motor Works could have a dustbin on thier LSR sidecar in 2011 at Bonneville
    #7
  8. MODNROD

    MODNROD Cruising speed

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    Gday Bootlace. :wave

    Know the feeling, I'm on night watch in the Nth Midwest/Sth Murchison.
    Great for coming up with stooopid ideas, like trying to get a 1972 CB350twin into the 12's.........just coz you can! (only just probably, with an act of God.....:rofl ).
    Great pics. I'd love to get there one day to see all this stuff up close.

    I wonder what the difference would be on a before and after trial?:confused

    That last pic of the "fighter" eyes and teeth is just plain cool!
    #8
  9. rightsideup

    rightsideup Get your motor running...

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  10. ericrat

    ericrat Long timer

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    I don't think there are any venues where a dustbin is legal except on a sidecar. We might still have a rather beat up one for a /2 up in rafters. I won't ride with it.
    #10
  11. MODNROD

    MODNROD Cruising speed

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    Dustbin's are only ILLEGAL for FIM, salt and drags still OK (at least I know about the drags, only 90% sure bout landspeed).

    They seem to work well though, CD around .4/.45 from what I can gather, a newish sports bike about .55/.6 as a comparison. Might get below .4 with a tail of some sort, or salt tricks like wheel disc on rear.
    #11
  12. BOOTLACE

    BOOTLACE Bikie Scum.

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  13. MODNROD

    MODNROD Cruising speed

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    #13
  14. BOOTLACE

    BOOTLACE Bikie Scum.

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    Heres one from Lake Gairdner. Could be wrong, but I think this is officialy the worlds fastest bevel....

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    #14
  15. r50us68

    r50us68 Been here awhile

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    Where are these rafters?
    and could we arrange to have a back door opened?

    Love to see pictures
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  16. bmwhacker

    bmwhacker Still on 3 wheels

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    dpforth likes this.
  17. Tim McKittrick

    Tim McKittrick Long timer

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  18. Jinx

    Jinx Call me Renzo

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    Generally, anything that has been completely banned can be accepted to have worked, and worked damn well :deal

    The Guzzi stuff was really good, as they actually used a wind tunnel that tested 1:1 prototypes. The World Championship winning 350cc singles were brilliantly effective. They would run well over 140mph and were pushing up near 150mph on the faster circuits...with 38 BHP :bow

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    As has been mentioned, some of the side wind issues are:
    • The profile of the side of the fairing. Slab sides are really sensitive to crosswinds. A more rounded profile (like Guzzi used) is much less so

    • The little MV fairing that is wandering about is pretty sensitive to cross-winds

    • It is really easy to get the center of pressure of a motorcycle with a dustbin fairing in front of it's center of gravity. When you do that you have created an arrow with tail feathers...flying backwards :huh . It will always be unstable. To properly balance this you need a larger/longer tail section (or move some weight forward).

    • From an aero standpoint, how the air re-attaches is almost as important to how it is pushed apart. The back half of the bike matters, but nobody does a really good job of it because it would look funny and it would extend a lot farther back than people would generally accept.

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    The Dog's Balls of current streamlined fairings as seen on Tom Mellor's Triumph Trident. Tom has run 180mph as a 750cc with push-rods on gas...so yes, we can say it splits the wind brilliantly. In fact. I would lay very good odds that it makes most of the old dustbins look silly from a Cd standpoint (mostly because of the hugely more efficient tail section) . It really is a clever design.

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    Cheers :wave
    #18
  19. fishkens

    fishkens Long timer

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    Top notch post...as per usual. Thanks for the perspective.
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  20. MODNROD

    MODNROD Cruising speed

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    The whole point for me is to get to the end of the 1/4mile quicker, and streamlining is the next "big" thing I rekn. It may allow me to qualify something that otherwise wouldn't come close.......and therefore in my eyes be cool!
    I'm not talking of something new obviously, and most guys (me included!) like the "old school" open, naked dragbike look. I just thought it would be a big advantage, and one that I personally have never played with before, hence all the dumb questions and history lessons!:lol2

    Jay Upton seems to know what he's doing. Low-6's while rolling off at 1000ft is DAMN TOUGH. Here's what he's done.....
    http://66.246.229.61/~tfpnet/gallery/index.htm#20
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_ufEDxbsAA
    The speed at the other end is probably 20mph more than what you would expect given the combination and the early shut-off.

    That Triumph is dead-set gorgeous! :bow
    Very, very nice.
    #20