Dyna Booster... yes or no?

Discussion in 'Airheads' started by headtube, Jan 29, 2013.

  1. Other Bob

    Other Bob Been here awhile

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    Installation instructions, from the Velleman site -

    http://www.vellemanusa.com/downloads/0/illustrated/illustrated_assembly_manual_k2543.pdf


    If I understand Bill (and the Velleman instructions) correctly, it looks like the Dynabooster and/or Velleman unit simply replace the traditional condensor but are more efficient at saturating/exciting the coil to a higher output without burning the breaker points in the process? Or, are they really just a cheap way of converting the old inductive-discharge coil (IDI) to a capacitor-discharge ignition (CDI)?

    (I know, it's Wikipedia, but FWIW there's a comment here on why there is an improvement in breaker point life, among other advantages) -

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_discharge_ignition

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignition_coil

    Bob
    #21
  2. disston

    disston ShadeTreeExpert

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    Hey, thanks for the directions. Looks like the radio receiver I was supposed to build when I was in High School but I never did. I find this sort of thing happens to me all the time that stuff from my childhood comes back to haunt me.
    #22
  3. chasemotorman

    chasemotorman Adventurer

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    I've followed this thread, and many of you said the cost of the booster wasn't worth the performance gain. But what if there was no cost? I found a Dyna III on a project bike. Do these ever go bad, or need to be tested to make sure they still work? I would probably lean towards the less complexity argument, but those I have spoken to about it all leave their old ignition in place, in the (unlikely?) event one of these did fail. I am curious enough to try it, if I can figure out the installation. On an R100S, BTW.
    #23
  4. disston

    disston ShadeTreeExpert

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    You have brought up a different subject. The original subject of this thread is the use of what is known as the "Booster". These are sometimes called CDI or Capacitor Discharge Ignitions. They were common in the late Sixties and Seventies Hot Rod market. The Booster is something added to the standard ignition points ignition. It is wired into the OEM circuit. While the original ignition points are kept in place their job becomes easier and the parts last longer.

    The Dyna III is an electronic ignition conversion unit. It does not keep the ignition points in place. It uses a different form of electronics to trigger the unit. This is usually a Hall sensor. The Hall sensor is grafted onto the advance unit usually rendering it useless at any future date should there be any desire to return to the OEM set up. The ignition points and the ignition points plate are not used at all. They will not be on the bike if needed for a return to OEM ignition.

    To answer your question, "Do they ever go bad?" Yes. The problem with a Dyna III when it has stopped working is, is it the amplifier or is it the Hall sensor? Repair is most times a replacement of the entire unit. If this problem occurs on the road and far for repair facilities there is very little likelihood of a return to OEM ignition to get the bike running again. If you have a failure of a Dyna III ignition you need a pick up truck to get back to civilization.

    This is the crux of the matter. The modification of a points ignition. You have several choices. 1...is the conversion of the points ignition to a modern total electronics set up that does not keep any of the OEM parts in place and should there be a need to convert back to OEM ignition will be almost impossible. Or 2...the addition of a Booster that keeps the ignition points and other parts in place and should there be a need to convert back to OEM ignition this can be done by moving a couple of wires.

    I like the idea of a Booster added to my 1975 BMW OEM ignition. I will not convert the bike to a Dyna III unit. If you were given one of these and wish to use it you may get many years of trouble free service from it but I would stock pile the parts needed to replace it for the day when this is needed because I think it's one of those things that's a matter of "when" not a matter of "if".
    #24
  5. chasbmw

    chasbmw Long timer

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    Having run electronic ignitions on Nortons and BMWs since the early 70s I have yet to be convinced about the inherent unreliability of electronic ignition..........

    With points ignition, assuming that you have set it up correctly, it will then drift off optimum as time goes on, the mechanical advance and retard is a crude device and much better ignition curves can be obtained using a fully electronic ignition, etc etc. crankshaft mounted ignitions can enable you to retain a back up ignition if you wish.
    #25
  6. chasemotorman

    chasemotorman Adventurer

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    Dyna booster != Dyna III. That goes a long way to describe why the installation instructions weren't what I expect.
    #26
  7. headtube

    headtube 6 mesas de invierno!

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    Thanks all for your opinions. I will stay with the points only and see how long they last. Besides... they're cheap to replace.
    #27
  8. DaveBall

    DaveBall Long timer

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    Excellent decision. Just brilliant I tell you. :1drink
    #28
  9. disston

    disston ShadeTreeExpert

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    I received my Velleman ignition kit yesterday. The directions are confusing and there will be a few extra small parts needed for the connection to the bike. I also have not decided if I will mount this with or without putting it in a small box. Over all it does look like it is intended to be, something that can be built and added to the standard ignition system of most any internal combustion engine making it more reliable and efficient.

    Because this is a kit and not a finished box it is not a plug and play system such as the Dynatek Booster. It was less than half the price though.

    I will start another thread about this build and give more concise directions hopefully than those published by Velleman.
    #29
  10. 190e

    190e Long timer

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    Just signed up so I can throw my 2 cents on this.

    I installed a Velleman Ignition kit 5 years back. It cost £10 and has been 100% reliable. Building the kit is easy, finding a suitable box less so. I mounted the unit under the tank just forward of the rear coil so as to keep the cables as short as possible. I found the supplied heat sink took up too much space and substituted a larger ribbed alloy plate as the cover for a shallow plastic box. My unit runs very cool so a large fancy heat sink mustn't have been necessary. If you haven't built it yet I would consider drilling out the cable connection holes on the circuit board so a decent gauge of wire can be used to minimise volt drop. I kept the original wiring spade connections stock so that if the unit should fail a return to normal points is easy at the side of the road. Just need to carry the original condenser.

    I believe a points ignition amplifier does give some improvement in the spark particularly at low revs due to the cleaner faster switching of the coils.

    The other big plus is my new set of OEM points is lasting a very long time with only minor wear on the heel. Maintaining the correct stock points gap is still important though as the unit has no inbuilt dwell control.

    Not a great picture but you get the idea.
    [​IMG]
    #30
  11. Prmurat

    Prmurat Long timer

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    Just ordered a British one for my Dnepr...
    #31
  12. disston

    disston ShadeTreeExpert

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    Thanks for the front line report 190e. It's been too cold here to get anytime to work on this and I have some other stuff happening too, like everybody else.

    I did have a Dyna Booster on my bike for some years and it gave up for no reason at all one day several months ago in a shopping mall parking lot. Of course I had the bike running again in short order. I really much prefer the idea of keeping every thing OEM and adding the advantage of the electronics to make the spark hotter and the points last longer. It's a win win situation in my book. Not everybody agrees.

    Since I have a large Hannigan fairing on my bike I may put the Velleman unit in or on the fairing but that may entail having to use a disco plug of some sort. I'll figure this part out later. I do know which holes you refer to for using larger wires. Thanks for the advice.
    #32
  13. AndrewSJC

    AndrewSJC Adventurer

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    Sorry to dredge up this old thread, but I hope someone can fill me in on Steve W's setup.

    The GM module sounds like a great alternative to a Dyna Ignition Booster. I'd like to try it. First, I hope someone can answer a few questions for me:

    1. Do I understand correctly that the GM 4 pin module does approximately the same thing as the Dyna Ignition Booster (reduce wear on the points, and make the spark stronger)?

    2. Will it work on my 1976 R90/6? It has a totally stock electrical system, including the original dual coils, stock voltage regulator, stock points, etc.

    3. Is this the same module that Steve used?:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wells-DR100...Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d2d576d65&vxp=mtr


    It sounds too good to be true. Saves your points, boosts spark, and costs only $10? I was considering buying the Dyna Ignition Booster for $70, but if I can get the same thing (sort of) for only $10, I would be all over it.
    #33
  14. Stan_R80/7

    Stan_R80/7 Beastly Gnarly

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    That Wells R100 module linked from ebay looks like the right one to me. You do realize that a circuit must be constructed, right? It's not like you add the module and go. Here is the link again to the page with the circuit(s): http://home.comcast.net/~loudgpz/GPZweb/Ignition/GPZheiModForPoints.html

    I built the Velleman K2543 module in about an hour from their kit (http://www.vellemanusa.com/products/view/?country=us&lang=enu&id=350487). But, I haven't installed it since the Boyer Brandsen ignition seems to be doing fine. Also, I haven't resolved how to pot the Velleman kit circuit board.
    #34
  15. 190e

    190e Long timer

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    Yes the Wells R100 is the same module and there are several other equivalents as well. It's a common module.

    And yes it will work OK with your existing coils and wiring although I presume you've seen the few extra components needed to trigger these modules with points.

    If I hadn't already built and installed the Vellerman kit (see my earlier post in this thread, in fact my very first post on the forum) I would have gone for one of these GM modules as spares should be very easy and cheap to come by.

    Don't get too carried away about the benefits although it would be at least as good as the Dyna booster or any other for that matter. Yes it's an electronic ignition but the performance improvement is limited by the coils and most electronic ignitions, BMW's own included, get there improvement by using lower resistance coils to boost spark energy. In theory even with the existing coils, there is some improvement due to the cleaner faster switching particularly when cranking and at low revs. My experience seems to bear that out. All I can say is that assuming I don't stuff up on the choke setting, the bike starts instantly on the button every time.

    If you think that there is no justification for the Dyna nodule costing 10 times as much you are absolutely correct and the GM\Wells modules are a very neat solution. There are several others modules that have been adapted for a points trigger but this is the neatest and cheapest and the one I'd use.
    #35
  16. motor_chris

    motor_chris Been here awhile

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    A booster should definitely provide better and more consistent energy (due to the transistor switching component). The points no longer have to transfer the high current and the wear becomes minimal.
    #36
  17. AndrewSJC

    AndrewSJC Adventurer

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    Thanks for the info, 190e! This is the diagram you linked to in your post:

    [​IMG]

    I would use the schematic in Figure 1. It looks like I would need a transistor and a resistor to make the circuit. Is that correct?

    If anyone has links/sources for the resistor and transistor (with specific part numbers and so forth), I would really appreciate it. Of course I know I could go to Radio Shack, but it would be good to have some brand names, part numbers, and other info before I go, so that I know I am getting the correct transistor and resistor.

    And it would be great to have some photos or a how-to on making this thing. I imagine someone has already posted about it somewhere.
    #37
  18. nothing

    nothing Been here awhile

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    #38
  19. Stan_R80/7

    Stan_R80/7 Beastly Gnarly

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    IMO, the key is packaging the transistor and resistor so they can be:

    a.) mounted on the bike
    b.) withstand vibration and heat
    c.) be waterproof (reasonably)

    There are several ways to accomplish those requirements and some are more clever than others. Mounting the transistor and resistor on the DR100 module using something like GOOP after soldering the connections may be one approach. Alternately, having a separate small fiberglass circuit board for the transistor and resistor which has a ground wire and two spade connectors in a potted box is another. There are more and that's generally where the effort is spend in such electronics, IMO.

    Edit: in full disclosure, I own a Dyna Booster and used it briefly. The first unit arrived DOA but was replaced under warranty. During that replacement time I got a Boyer Bransdsen micro power kit (w/coils). As one who routinely wastes money on motorcycle gadgets, don't let my experience dissuade anyone from getting a Dyna Booster.
    #39
  20. 190e

    190e Long timer

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    #40