E15 to E85 coming to a pump near you!

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by coach03860, Jun 24, 2013.

  1. swimmer

    swimmer armchair asshole

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    That's interesting. Was this all the same brand of gas?
  2. swimmer

    swimmer armchair asshole

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    I've worked in the renewable energy business for the last 13 years. Ethanol sucks. Environmental nightmare. Corn for gas, take it up the ass.
  3. joexr

    joexr Banned

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    I've only done this a couple of times , but these are my findings as well.
  4. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    wow .. great info!

    there's lots of times I cannot go to my favorite gas station without ethanol. pumping premium is about same costs as paying 20cents or so more at gas station without ethanol.

    what a racket! successfully pulled off by the ethanol lobby... if a product cannot stand on it's own merits financially ... then it should fall and not be in the market place!

    yet another example of the upper .01% enriching themselves further at taxpayer and public's expense.
  5. stevie88

    stevie88 That's gotta hurt

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    I said insecticides, you said pesticides into which are lumped all chemicals applied to a crop. The various Bt GMO crops don't need insecticides to combat their primary insect pests. The beauty of this is that benefical bug populations don't get hammered by insecticides which then leads to a cycle of ever more insecticide applications....especially in cotton. We grow all GMO cotton, but we chose the GMO traits we need. Weed control is important so we select glyphosate tolerant varieties for all our fields and where we have particular weed issues we select seed that is resistant to 2 different herbicides. We don't use Bt genetics on all our cotton or corn acres because we don't need to. Cotton boll worms and corn ear worms, the same critter, no longer overwhelm the beneficial insects in our region because we no longer have to spray insecticides to control those guys. It's the ultimate Integrated Pest Mamagement system.

    Btw, corn is naturally tolerant to 2,4-D as are wheat mad grain sorgum. 2,4-D kicks broad leaf plants in the nutz though. Weeds and insects continually evolve to changing environmental pressure, that's nothing new and only an idiot would expect a pesticide to remain viable indefinitely.

    And what's this bullshit about "mutate to build a natural resistance to insects"? You must be insane. That is one of the dumber things I've read here and that is really saying something.
  6. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    just discovered this .. this is fucking insanity!!!

    ------------
    Deficit hawks, environmentalists, and food processors are celebrating the expiration of the ethanol tax credit. This corporate handout gave $0.45 to ethanol producers for every gallon they produced and cost taxpayers $6 billion in 2011. So why did the powerful corn ethanol lobby let it expire without an apparent fight? The answer lies in legislation known as the Renewable Fuel Standard (RFS), which creates government-guaranteed demand that keeps corn prices high and generates massive farm profits. Removing the tax credit but keeping the RFS is like scraping a little frosting from the ethanol-boondoggle cake.
    The RFS mandates that at least 37 percent of the 2011-12 corn crop be converted to ethanol and blended with the gasoline that powers our cars…[As a result] the current price of corn on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange is about $6.50 per bushel—almost triple the pre-mandate level.
  7. pmelby

    pmelby Home Brew Adventurer

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    Wrong again. The VEETC (Volumetric Ethanol Excise Tax Credit) provided a $0.45 tax credit for each gallon of ethanol used by the blender. The blenders are the gasoline distribution companies (big oil). My company, as a small producer (50mmgpy), did benefit from a subsidy that has long since expired. We also used to collect a few hundred k$ for the E85 that we blended (with straight run, or natural gasoline) and sold direct to stations that sell E85. The blenders, as soon as the VEETC expired, simply raised the price of gas, passing the bill to the consumer.

    http://www.bioenergywiki.net/Volumetric_Ethanol_Excise_Tax_Credit

    It all boils down to whether or not you believe that we should be trying to use a renewable source for a portion of our motor fuel. Ethanol is the only viable alternative at this point. It has its drawbacks, especially when derived from corn starch. Bio-butanol(sp?) would probably be a better alternative for blending with gasoline but the yeast & enzymes for conversion aren't ready yet (commercial plants just starting to scale up), same with cellulosic.

    cheers,
    melby
  8. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    do you dispute ethanol costs US tax payers some $6Billion last year and that legislation has now changed to below... this artificially inflates prices for corn which will increase Food costs for just about everyone.

    "The RFS mandates that at least 37 percent of the 2011-12 corn crop be converted to ethanol and blended with the gasoline that powers our cars…[As a result] the current price of corn on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange is about $6.50 per bushel—almost triple the pre-mandate level."

    totally disagree ethanol is a viable alternative fuel ... NO fuel that cannot stand on it's own financial merits .. should be forced down on American consumers!!!
  9. stevie88

    stevie88 That's gotta hurt

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    Don't be an idiot. The tax credit ended 18 months ago and when it did fuel prices were raised by the distributors to make up the difference. The price of raw commodities has little to do with most food costs, most of the costs are in processing, packaging and distribution and ethanol helps reduce fuel costs. Take ethanol out of the picture and your fuel cost will jump.

    It appears that you want farmers to go back to producing crops at below the cost of production prices and receive massive subsidies from the government and at the same time you would also have gasoline prices increase $1.50. That's sweet.

    Your final statement is an exersise in concentrated stupid.
  10. MJS

    MJS Long timer

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    Fixed
  11. Navy Chief

    Navy Chief Long timer

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    Your statements are an exercise in concentrated stupid.

    Raw materials costs will always effect the cost of the product being produced, no manufacturer is just going to eat the cost.

    I am paying the same cost for non-ethanol fuel as the 10% ethanol fuel already so no my fuel costs will not jump.
  12. stevie88

    stevie88 That's gotta hurt

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    Sure it will when you remove 10% of the motor fuel supply. Just watch prices jump.
  13. swimmer

    swimmer armchair asshole

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    FWIW I started another thread on this to get more feedback on the subject so as to not mess up this wonderful thread. I put it in road warriors.
  14. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    FUCK YOU and the horse you rode in on!!

    you are an idiot and fucking delusional if you think multiplying price of corn will not have an effect on food prices.

    just now found out about the screwing ethanol lobby has hoisted on the American public.....
  15. stevie88

    stevie88 That's gotta hurt

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    I didn't say it didn't.

    I said that it's a relatively minor component in the cost of many items and that removing 10% of the fuel supply by eliminating ethanol would raise gas prices significantly and that farmers would be back to requiring subsidizes because commodity prices would be well below the cost of production.

    One way or another the cost to feed and fuel the country has to be paid. Now go piss up a rope, you moron.:deal
  16. Navy Chief

    Navy Chief Long timer

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    Why can't we just let this wonderful thing called free market work it's magic. Stop all of the tax breaks and subsidies... There is no reason that the price of the commodity needs to be under the cost of production, the only reason this worked in the first place is because the subsides existed. All that has to happen is for the farmer to refuse to sell the commodity until the market price matches the production cost with a reasonable profit. Supply and Demand economics dictate that if there is no commodity available on the market the price will necessarily go up. This is simple stuff and works as long as the govt is not screwing with the markets like they have been for a really long time.


    BTW in a truly free market ethanol would be a very regional fuel choice, close to the farms and close to the production. And it would have to be significantly cheaper that pure gas to make sense to switch over...
  17. stevie88

    stevie88 That's gotta hurt

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    It's not nearly as simple as that in the real world. Not by a long shot. First you'd need the justice dept to break up all the major multinationals into a thousand smaller players, other wise you still have big guys able to manipulate the market. When millions of farmers are all competing with each other and have only a handfull of major merchants and dealers to buy inputs from and sell product to it ain't a free market and it doesn't work very well......unless you enjoy the roller coaster ride of booms and busts.
  18. 1911fan

    1911fan Master of the Obvious

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    The very definition of a free market. As has been pointed out repeatedly, we would not have ethanol fuel if not for massive government subsidies. And it makes no sense to use food as a fuel. Since the price of corn has tripled or quadrupled, it's created a ripple effect on things like tortillas.... and gas prices.
    :dhorse


    1911fan
  19. stevie88

    stevie88 That's gotta hurt

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    It's lowered gas prices and caused minor increases in basic food costs.


    Btw, the free market sucks when it comes to long term strategic planning. Using tax policy and subsidies as a means of directing economic growth towards desired results has a long, sucessful track record.
  20. SnowMule

    SnowMule [angry moth noises]

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    :clap Local fuel depot has 91 non-ethanol (and 101LL :evil) at the pump.