efi F650gs engine in a KTM640e/a chassis? Has anyone done this?

Discussion in 'Some Assembly Required' started by FloorPoor, Sep 3, 2013.

  1. FloorPoor

    FloorPoor Been here awhile

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    That looks good, how well does it work?

    Another project I've had my mind on for quite awhile. Versys engine in my KLR, but I want suspension too. Suspension, more than anything, is what has had me thinking about ditching my old reliable KLR (25,000 miles and no mechanical issues) and going with a 640a, but I want reliable along with my suspension.
    #21
  2. Roadracer_Al

    Roadracer_Al louder, louder, louder!

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    This is something I suggest to people all the time: build the frame from scratch.

    People say "oh, steel is expensive", but really, there's only about $60 worth of tube in a chassis.

    People say "Oh, I won't be able to license it", but most states have a provision for licensing home-built vehicles (look at hot rods!)

    People say "Oh, I don't know how to weld", but many communities have adult education or vocational training in the evenings.

    People say "Oh, I don't own a machine shop", but almost every community has a machine shop - ask around about "job shops" -- they'll take on your low volume work. OR.... join TechShop if your community has one. Training and access to professional-level machinery for the win.

    People say "Oh, I wouldn't know how to design a chassis", but you need to understand that you don't actually design one from scratch -- you copy one that you know works. In this case, measure the KTM frame, and build a copy that fits the engine of your dreams.

    If you're totally not going to build your own frame, there are professional frame builders that will do the work for you and deliver a very nicely finished product. All you do is make a drawing of what you want, and they do the heavy lifting.
    #22
  3. Dan Alexander

    Dan Alexander only happy when sad

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    There go most of my excuses :lol3
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  4. Whale Rider

    Whale Rider Been here awhile

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    Well said that man.:clap
    there is not much that hasn't been done before study copy slightly change go for it.


    http://www.flickr.com/photos/28806692@N02/9702749311/in/photostream


    MORE PHOTOS ADDED



    WR
    #24
  5. FloorPoor

    FloorPoor Been here awhile

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    Thanks for all the replies, many of them have been very informative. Now to start gathering parts and make plans.
    #25
  6. DRjoe

    DRjoe Long timer

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    What you building there mr WR?
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  7. Whale Rider

    Whale Rider Been here awhile

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    My interpretation of one of these

    http://micapeak.com/bmw/gs/rally/pd2000/pd2000gs.htm

    dam flickr I can get the photos to load. but there are more photos on the Flickr Page

    I will put a couple of more recent photos on Flickr later DONE

    I will start my own build thread when I am closer to the end.

    I am not going to hijack this thread

    WR
    #27
  8. michael1968

    michael1968 Long timer

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    #28
  9. Rufjeep

    Rufjeep Been here awhile

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    The only thing I would add is that it might be simpler to modify a steel tubed frame than start from scratch. The 640 would be a good starting point- your suspension is there, head tube, etc. Even if you chopped everything up, you would still have something to connect the dots to.
    #29
  10. Roadracer_Al

    Roadracer_Al louder, louder, louder!

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    There are two ways to look at this: A) replace as little of the donor chassis as possible, and B) replace as much of the donor chassis as possible. There are upsides and downsides to both.

    With plan A, there is always the temptation to try to preserve a lot of the original bits, which often causes a lot of head scratching and extra work to make the gas tank/side panels/footpegs/kickstand etc. etc. work with the mods. I've spent hours and hours moving brackets and tabs around just to make tanks and side panels line up right.

    This particular project MIGHT work well with this method because the motors are similarly sized.

    With Plan B, you take your headstock with the factory-stamped VIN number (and associated title documents!!) and move them over to a full new frame (this side-steps the need for home-built status) and allows you to produce exactly what you want with fewer compromises on important stuff like chain lines, and a bit less head-scratching, IMHO.

    Yes, it's a bit more work, but you get a "cleaner" product at the end.... i.e. fewer odd/multiple spacers, fewer extensions on brackets, etc.

    a
    #30
  11. DRjoe

    DRjoe Long timer

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    Well I think everyone would probably agree with me that you should start a build thread now.

    I'll be looking for inspiration soon as I've got a customers hp2 in the workshop at the moment waiting for me to build into something similar to the one you linked to.
    #31
  12. Whale Rider

    Whale Rider Been here awhile

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    Well DRjoe no thread yet but thanks it has been a labour of love for the last couple of years so I will start a thread when I get near the end good things take time. As for looking for inspiration this comes from the man that takes a cut off saw to the rear of a 650 and fits up DRZ parts, I think you will be fine. But here is a couple of points. The HP2 Enduro was derived by BMW from the Dakar R900RR that I put the link up to. For me the HP2 was an option except for the price and the fact that you then need to upgrade the suspension for any serious off roading. Std shock for the rear, out with the air bag and then better forks for the front some have fitted KTM 950 forks. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
    A bit of light reading and inspiration here
    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=237705

    I have an old 1100GS fitted with a 21" front wheel which I use for ADV riding it is amazing where you can take it but it is still very top heavy. My project is to move as much wait as possible down low and to the centre of the bike. I am not sure if you can see the other photos on my Flickr page? I have made a petrol tank down where the airbox used to go holds 16 ltrs and everything is centred in the frame.

    My point on this post is that you don't have to have a cad programme or be an engineer to do this sort of stuff as pointed out by Roadracer_Al
    but as with my frame I have copied all the critical points from the BMW bike I started with IE: foot peg location rear shock top mount steering head position just has a bit more rake and then joined them all together back around the engine and trans. I must say I have studied alot of frames/photographs to get what I finally drew up for my project.

    I hope to have a test ride on it by Xmas and then strip paint reassemble etc etc all going well

    WR

    them a thread.
    #32
  13. michael1968

    michael1968 Long timer

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    Nice work mate, that's a great idea on the fuel tank.
    #33
  14. Eddieb

    Eddieb www.AdventureRidingNZ.co.nz

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    Hurry with that ;)
    #34
  15. DRjoe

    DRjoe Long timer

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    thanks for the reply, we should stop this hijack but i think we need to convince you to start a build thread.
    The reason its called a build thread is because your building the bike if it was a thread to show off a finished bike it would be called a tada its finished thread.

    Best you get too it.

    Sorry to the OP for the hijack
    #35
  16. Dan Alexander

    Dan Alexander only happy when sad

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    I'd like to see one as well :deal

    Had a 650 Dakar and a Super Enduro and both were good but both had negatives as well. The SE was top heavy and on the same road I could actually ride the Dakar faster.

    The combination of the lighter Rotax engine in a good frame is very appealing.
    #36
  17. FloorPoor

    FloorPoor Been here awhile

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    I've been making some loose plans, and scraping up funds for some donor bikes.

    I don't mind the hijack, I'm also pretty interested in what you're building WR
    #37
  18. Whale Rider

    Whale Rider Been here awhile

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    NO PRESSURE THEN :lol3:lol3:lol3

    WR
    #38
  19. Plasticjesus

    Plasticjesus random roadburner

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    sounds like a great plan - i would be checking with some fuel injection experts to see if you can run a modified fuel intake in from the side to get around the problems of the downdraft stock one being right in your frame and fuel tank space - may make it simpler and easier and get to keep more fuel capacity
    #39
  20. Whale Rider

    Whale Rider Been here awhile

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    Sorry about the hijack FloorPoor back to your project. Have you thought about the BMW 650 X Challenge as a donor bike. All you would need then would be forks and rear shock. Walter Colebatch on this forum swears by them and looks like there are aftermarket parts available ex Europe.
    Light reading here

    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=834987

    WR
    #40