efi F650gs engine in a KTM640e/a chassis? Has anyone done this?

Discussion in 'Some Assembly Required' started by FloorPoor, Sep 3, 2013.

  1. Whale Rider

    Whale Rider Been here awhile

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    Have you looked at the photos on the link on post 24?? The intake system is all sorted. I dont know if anyone has noticed that the throtle bodies have been swapped from left to right with the injectors now mounted so that they are still squirting straight towards the inlet port. I don't see there being any issues time will tell. as for fuel capacity 16 litres in the lower tank and another 6 litres in the YZ tank up top total 22 litres should be enough for most trips here in NZ.

    WR
    #41
  2. Whale Rider

    Whale Rider Been here awhile

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    Thanks michael1968 just been laying some fibreglass (OLD'SCOOL) from the front of the tank to the steering head above the air filters finish's it of nicely. I will leave the carbon fibre to you guys.

    Cheers WR
    #42
  3. Plasticjesus

    Plasticjesus random roadburner

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    i was referring to the OPs original 650 single efi engine into KTM spine frame idea -ie the title of the thread

    just had a look at those photos they appear to be of one of those odd bikes with the cylinders hanging out the sides
    #43
  4. michael1968

    michael1968 Been here awhile

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    It's just like fibreglass but more $$$....


    Back on the engine swap, I'd think (but I'm biased) you'd be better off with the older rotax engine in the 640 frame. It'd be an easier fit, as well as the frame you've got to think about fitting the engine under that big tank. The earlier engine while not FI does have a stronger bottom end (forged piston vs cast etc), the dakar winning F650's were actually the earlier engine in a highly modified later frame.
    #44
  5. DRjoe

    DRjoe Long timer

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    Are the earliey motors downdraft as well?
    #45
  6. michael1968

    michael1968 Been here awhile

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    Nah, they're out the side. They're twin carb but if that was to wide you can get a single carb manifold of a ds650.
    #46
  7. FloorPoor

    FloorPoor Been here awhile

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    I do really like the x challenge, but they're not too common. One production year=limited supply. I think it might be the perfect DS bike (for what I like to do) when set up like Walters. If I find one for the right price, at the right time, Ill abandon this crazy idea. Or I might just try and find a low mileage 640 and ride it till it blows up, then work on a swap.
    #47
  8. johninlv

    johninlv Adventurer

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    Great thread, I have a well set up WR250R and have been looking at the TR650 Husky. The smooth motor and gear ratios seem to be spot on. I like the fuel under the seat but would need a larger tank. How about a TR650 motor in a Wr250/450 aloy frame. KYB suspension can be tuned to any level of performance.
    #48
  9. gatorgrizz27

    gatorgrizz27 Been here awhile

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    I'm all for complex projects, and build plenty myself. However if 100% reliability in a severe environment is what you're going for, I'm not sure it is the best way. They often have many little issues and teething problems, such as wires chafing, parts vibrating loose, etc. Unfortunaltey they also typically make use of one-off or difficult to find parts as well, which may be impossible to replace in certain locales. With my projects I try to use as many factory available parts as possible, and usually from the same brand, or at least readily available/easy to duplicate parts.

    You might be better off having a 640 motor gone through and completely built up by someone reputable checking every part, making necessary upgrades, balancing it, etc. reducing the compression may also increase longevity, and I believe Rally Raid was producing a 450 kit for the lc4 that might improve reliability and increase fuel mileage. I don't know much about the Husky TE610/630, but they may be what you are looking for as well.
    #49
  10. dnrobertson

    dnrobertson Big Bike, Slow Rider

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    Rallyraid kit is for the LC4-690 (Current model) not the 640.
    #50
  11. Zuber

    Zuber Zoob

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    The 600/625/640 motor is an antique. It is difficult to rebuild. To replace the shifter seal - split the cases. Kick start spring breaks - split the cases. Sand cast cases are very soft aluminum and strip easy. The casting shapes are somewhat random, sometimes you can't get a wrench on a case screw, sometimes there's not enough material to hold the screw. Heavy crank, way too small counter balancer. Expensive. Some parts are slow to order. Makes this bike a great idea for a fresh motor.

    Love the frame, suspension, wheels, tank, fairing, etc. I've thought about stuffing a good light motor in these. Would love to squeeze an SV650 engine in there, but there's no way. The 640 motor is somewhat short front to back.

    Right or left output is not a big deal. A japanese motor would be good. A wet sump motor would be easier. I think a DR650 motor would be a better candidate. These are everywhere.
    #51
  12. Kawidad

    Kawidad Long timer

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    That's what I was thinking too.

    Although, the Rotax ideal has merit. :evil
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  13. DC950

    DC950 Microadventurer

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    I think it's a brilliant idea and have always said that when my 640 blows up, I'm putting a Rotax in it. It's been done though. Somewhere I have a picture from a guy in Egypt who's done it with a carb engine. I think he even rented it out for desert tours. Hopefully I can find it and post it.

    Even an air cooled Rotax would be more reliable than the KTM and probablly easier to shoehorn in. People used to road race them 15-20 years ago. They made good power and were very reliable. They were flat tracked as well.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Pic stolen from these guys:

    http://www.barebones.net/machines.htm

    I have no doubt they could make it work in a 640 Adv frame.


    The Suzuki 650 is a nice, reliable engine but it's a dog.
    #53
  14. michael1968

    michael1968 Been here awhile

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    Didn't the earlh KTM's run rotax engines before they developed their own?
    #54
  15. Kawidad

    Kawidad Long timer

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    Yes
    #55
  16. Roadracer_Al

    Roadracer_Al louder, louder, louder!

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    I say put a CR500 motor in, and be done with it. :norton
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  17. zig06

    zig06 Been here awhile

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    You know, if he wanted to get really crazy he could find a Yamaha Banshee 350 motor, install a 500cc kit and go smoke some 600cc rockets! They would never know what beat them, but the slight mist of burnt oil would let them know that they really did just get "smoked"! :evil
    #57
  18. Roadracer_Al

    Roadracer_Al louder, louder, louder!

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    I have it on good authority that those can be let out to nearly 800ccs and 90 hp. Ringadingdingding indeed.
    #58
  19. papublic

    papublic n00b

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    hey guys-it has been done, tough not with an EFI engine.
    Just read in the german bike mag (MOTORRAD, 17.1.2014), that Thomas and Marion Schmitt from germany have been doing it for years. they use the Rotax engine (with Keihin carb and aftermarket exhaust = 60HP) in an KTM 625 EXC frame AND in a sidecar setup (HEOS frame/chasis, 250kg incl. fuel!!).
    apparently they travel aroung 20.000km a year and have been doing it for the last 35 years. They find the KTM/Rotax the best combination ever.
    Oh, they also take their dog along on the trips ;-)
    Sorry, no more info at this stage, would also be interested since I also believe that this combination joins a very good chasis with a reliable and driveable engine.
    #59
  20. FloorPoor

    FloorPoor Been here awhile

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    If work picks up this year, like it looks like it will, I may possibly start looking for a donor chassis and engine this fall.:D
    #60