Elefant Technical Thread

Discussion in 'Moto Bellissima: All Other Dualsports' started by motomikedh, Feb 28, 2008.

  1. Durangoman

    Durangoman Yeah its me!

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    Thats the correct angle, I dont know why its hitting. The top of mine is maybe 1mm from touching the frame. I aligned the rear first then went to the front.
    #41
  2. azcagiva

    azcagiva new orange flavor

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    The gas cap has a vent in it, so no problems with plugging it. It will make a funny noise when the tank gets hot and the cap vents.
    [​IMG]

    -John
    #42
  3. Durangoman

    Durangoman Yeah its me!

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    No problemo then, my bike's tank already makes that funny noise with the Calif vent.
    Thanks
    #43
  4. Nixels

    Nixels Face fears - live life

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    I got the crash bars on yesterday - it was pretty straightforward after reading the instructions - Hedge36 had figured it out Wednesday night. I ground an angle in the L-bracket, and widened the mounting hole for that side - and it all went together pretty well. When you do this to your 'Fant, you may have some other little glitch instead of the metal of the L-bracket hitting the frame. Just be prepared to fiddle and fuss to get it right.

    They look great - and I'm really happy with the outcome.

    Here's a description of the process:

    Get directions out of the bag.
    Learn German.
    Read carefully.

    [​IMG]

    Note the detail and accuracy of the illustration.
    At this point, the best thing you can do is throw them away and take your best shot at figuring it out yourself. :evil :lol3

    Michael has good instructions that he emails to customers when they purchase, so that will do you - if you don't get them, email him and he'll send them to you. :thumb

    I'm a little s l o w, so it took me longer to understand than it should have. I had to redo some things, but I eventually got there. These instructions are an attempt to help out other challenged mahouts. :deal :lol3 :ricky

    The right side should be pretty straightforward - but you should check the hole in the L-bracket that mounts to the engine bolt. If it's not large enough, you may have to route it out - I didn't but who knows what you'll get. :uhoh :evil

    In order to put these in place, you have to take out the top rear engine bolt - this is a hosy little thing that's about 10mm in diameter and goes through the frame rails and engine mount. It's hosy because the bolt has two threaded heads on it, and they may spin or not, depending on who took them out last. Use a breaker bar if you have one, or if you're lucky, just a couple of allen sockets does the trick. I spun off the left side nut and then used an allen wrench to drive the bolt out of the right side.

    Now that you've removed the engine bolt, get a soft drift (I had a 1" piece of oak and a hammer) and drive out the aluminum spacers on either side of the engine/frame assembly. These are tight fitting buggers, but you don't want to whack them with something hard that may mess with frame/engine alignment. Once you've got them out - don't mix them up, they'll help you measure the replacement spacers as the kit gives you three. Two the same length and one that is narrower.

    Take off the two bolts that hold the rear brake switch assembly onto the front frame rail. You'll need to keep the nuts, as the kit doesn't give you new ones. :ace

    [​IMG]
    Sorry for the out of focus image :shog

    Now you can hang the right crash bar. Put the two new bolts through the frame/brake switch assembly and just spin on the nuts - don't tighten yet. You'll need a lot of wiggle room when you put the back spacer and L-bracket next to the engine.

    NOTE: If your crash bar L-bracket doesn't slide right up against the frame tube, you may need to put it in a vice and carefully bend it to the proper angle. This is part of the reason to keep the front bolts loose. :thumb

    Ok, warm-up exercises are over, now you're ready for the big time. Take the left crash bar and put the L-bracket inside the frame tube - it should look like this:

    [​IMG]

    Now go to the front and align the crash bar mounting tab on the INSIDE of the frame tube. If you put it on the outside - like I did, you may get it in place, or it may seem impossible. Either way - if the crash bar mounting tab is between the frame tube and the gas tank, it's in the wrong position. This is the wrong way to do it:

    [​IMG]

    You may have noticed on the L-bracket image that the thickness of the metal at the top of the bracket is hitting the frame and stops it from seating all the way. With it sitting outside the frame, you can see how the meat of the L-bracket has to be pared down to fit.

    [​IMG]

    I took my crash bar over to a buddy's and used his drill press - that metal's thick and hard. :clap Then I ground about a 30ยบ angle into the L-bracket to make it possible to snug it up against the frame. Sorry, no pix - I didn't take the camera with me. :knary What was I thinking? :huh

    A little spray paint, and we're back in business. On it goes - fairly straightforward now. There's a fiddle getting the front crash bar mounting bracket and u-bolt to marry up, but a little forceful persuasion, and they were mated as one. :pope

    [​IMG]
    Again, my apologies for the out of focus image - the 'Fant moved. :evil

    Now let's talk about the position of that front mounting tab, shall we? As I mentioned, it will go on between frame and gas tank, but it won't do you any good to put it there.

    Unless you like being frustrated - and doing things twice. :patch :poser

    The distance between the two crash bars is measured so that the connecting bar will reach. If the left front attachment is outside the frame, the connecting bar is exactly the frame tube's thickness. :uhoh

    After removing the U-bolt, I pulled the crash bar down to the bottom of the frame and slid it over and back up into position. When I put the U-bolt around the oustide of the frame and fixed the mounting tab on the inside of the frame tube, everything lined up beautifully. :clap

    [​IMG]

    Having brought yourself this far, you may feel like you're on the downhill side and you can take it easy. :amazon It is true, you've accomplished quite a bit, and the number of actions left are few, however you're dealing with an Italian machine and a German product - and it is your job to match these up successfully. Kinda like trying to be the marriage counsellor for Liz Taylor and Richard Burton - or any of her boytoys. :deal :razor

    The next step in the process is to grind the new mounting spacers to fit with the new crash bars in place. Bear in mind that the spacers go next to the engine and the crash bars snug up against the inside of the frame tubes.

    Once everything's in place, set the spacer right above the cavity it is designed to fill. Note how much material has to come off the side of the spacer to slide into space. Remember - taking off aluminum is no problem - putting it back on, well, that's a bit more difficult. You're going to have to remove about 1/16" to 1/8" of material, but do it in stages:

    Grind, check fit.
    Grind, check fit.
    Grind, check.... you get the idea. :rolleyes

    Having ground the right side, I put it in place and use my soft drift to get it in and lined up. You'll be amazed at how much of a challenge this can be - the crash bar mount will travel downward as you guide the spacer into place. This is a great opportunity for you to learn your fiddling and finessing technique - beating the spacer from the bottom up after you've gone too far; beating them both to align and realizing your working against yourself - it's all so much fun, I don't want to spoil it for you.

    Bring a little patience to the party - it'll go better than Coke. :augie

    [​IMG]

    Head on over to the sinister side and repeat the process of driving home your spacer against your mounting bracket.

    I know, it's not frustrating at all, just a sheer joy of marrying materials with your excellent craft skills.

    And it's so much fun that you easily line up the hole in the frame with the mounting bracket, spacer, engine, spacer, mounting bracket and frame. Once you think they're lined up, you would do well to get a 10mm rod about 24" long, and start to gently drive it through, thus aligning everything. If you don't have that, be very, very gentle - like you are with your soulmate when you make sweet love to them. (Gender neutral, for those that like the menfolk). Why be gentle, you ask? Threaded rod to fit this bike is somewhat hard to come by and if things aren't lined up, your threads will bear the brunt of your blows and be somewhat less than cooperative when threading on the nuts.

    Locktite your <s>bunghole</s> nut on one side, let it set up for an hour or more (do this when you pull the rod out). Assuming you have thread left, and that you got the rod to go all the way through, you've pretty well finished up.

    Either you're screaming because it took so long, or you're relieved that it only took as long as it did. :patch The final task is to mount the cross member at the front to tie the two crash bars together. You now have a stout, German cage around your delicate unobtanium Acerbis (French!) fairing and tank. You're beginning to look alot like an ADV'er. :thumb

    [​IMG]
    #44
  5. slangist

    slangist Been here awhile

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    Location:
    watchingtown, dc
    i allus loves it when ye parks yer steed on a oriental rug, kinda like a camel inside the tent...
    #45
  6. RichBeBe

    RichBeBe All Hail Seitan!!!

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2004
    Oddometer:
    6,326
    Location:
    NYC
    Just a heads up. I am not sure about the Elefant but most bikes one of the differences between the California bike and the 49-state bikes is that the gas tank is not vented for Cal. The idea is instead of venting into the air it vents through a charcoal canister. If you plug the vent the bike will starve for gas because of vapor lock until you open the gas cap and then it will run again.
    I would check out the Cali gas cap carefully and make sure it actually vents.
    On some bikes we would take the cap out and drill a tiny hole in the ring below the cap opening so it can vent but not leak.
    #46
  7. azcagiva

    azcagiva new orange flavor

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2007
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    1,156
    Location:
    Camp Verde, AZ
    My bike is a California bike. I have had it plugged since I bought it and have had no issues so far, 9+ years.

    -John

    Hey Rich
    #47
  8. flyben

    flyben Adventurer

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Oddometer:
    68
    Yop all ..

    I just got a 750cc fant Frame and swingarm ..
    with a full blue fairing except the windscreen ..

    so the plan would be to build a rally bike with it .

    12 liters rear tank
    24 litres front
    wp 50 front 280mm travel
    750 cc kick starter
    mikuni (or fcr carbs)
    wilbers rear with height adjustement
    koso Rs digital board
    special exhaust and sumpguard ..

    I'll keep you informed !!!

    --
    flyben
    #48
  9. Nixels

    Nixels Face fears - live life

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    Riding the US in search of writing manuals
    :wave flyben!

    Mebbe do a whole thread about it - with lot's of pictures. :deal
    :clap :clap :clap

    Good luck with it!
    #49
  10. flyben

    flyben Adventurer

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Oddometer:
    68
    why not a new thread .. do you think I've to put it in beast ?
    I'll make some photos and I've to find someone to help me draw my dreams

    after that i've got to find money to realize it .. will be the difficult part


    --
    Flyben
    #50
  11. Durangoman

    Durangoman Yeah its me!

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Oddometer:
    773
    Location:
    Durango
    I should look using my reading glasses but with the naked eye, I didnt see a tiny hole in the gas cap on my Calif model. Is the vent hole, on the 49state model, obviously noticeable or hidden?
    #51
  12. wazman

    wazman Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2008
    Oddometer:
    230
    Location:
    London via Australia
    We're respoking my front wheel (rusted seized nipples etc), which is from a twin-disc 900AC inverted front end.

    There are lugs on either side of the hub, with two spokes per lug, each running in opposite directions (one 'forward', one 'backward'.

    On removal, some of the spokes had a bigger bend at the hub end than others, and some seem to have little or no bend.

    It makes sense that they're bent-ended spokes, because the holes are not angled but the spokes need to angle inwards towards the rim.

    It also seems to make sense that there are two different bends - the spokes closer to the centre of the hub would require less angle. But on removal they did not all seem to follow this rule.

    Does anyone know what the deal is? Should I have two different bends? Has someone just messed it up when assembling the wheel? Any word on what the angle(s) involved are? I am probably going to get new spokes from Hagon.

    Thanks in advance,
    Wazman
    http://www.garagenight.tv
    #52
  13. motomikedh

    motomikedh Been here awhile

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    Jun 11, 2006
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    228
    Location:
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Bump, there are a few noobs out there missing this thread, thought I would bring it back up to keep all the important tech info in one place. Happy riding to you all, my forks aren't done yet, sorry. Pics as soon as I get the beast back together.
    #53
  14. fallzboater

    fallzboater Kiss My Shiny Metal Ass

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2007
    Oddometer:
    511
    Location:
    Hood River, OR
    Here's are some semi-tech questions from a soon-to-be owner '94 e900 owner (more to come, I'm sure):

    The August '94 MCN (U.S.) e900 vs. 1100GS comparison article says that the spec'd wheel travel is 8.27"/7.5" f/r, but the measured travel was only 4.25"/4.0". How did they come up with that? Anyone else measured the actual travel? How about with an aftermarket rear shock (Ohlins)? This would make a big difference in how much sag I shoot for when setting up the bike. I'm hoping it's not less than 5"; otherwise I might've saved the aggravation and found a used Wee.

    What are good f/r spring rates for a 200 lb rider and up to about 50 lb of gear (no pillion)? Are the stock front spring rates and (non-adjustable) preload close? I plan to set up the bike for about 50/50, with decent performance on double-track and very bad paved roads.

    There's also some disagreement between various tests about the fuel tank volume and reserve. What are the actual values?
    #54
  15. christian

    christian Exchange your GPS Track!

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    Jul 9, 2004
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    2,626
    Location:
    Redwood City, CA
    Anyone installed one of these HID / Xenon kit ?
    #55
  16. MySUV

    MySUV VTer

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2006
    Oddometer:
    87
    Location:
    Green Mountains
    Thanks for pointing me to this thread. I discovered my speedo cable is broken. I ordered a new cable for a supersport. The connections are correct, but it's way too short. Cable suggestions? Thanks for your help.
    #56
  17. azcagiva

    azcagiva new orange flavor

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    Apr 23, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,156
    Location:
    Camp Verde, AZ
    Where are you, MySUV? Reason I asked is I might have an extra one in my pile of parts somewhere. You also might want to get ahold of Rich Bebe, he is parting out one of his bikes, he is an inmate here. (look at post #46)

    -John
    #57
  18. MySUV

    MySUV VTer

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2006
    Oddometer:
    87
    Location:
    Green Mountains
    I'm in Hinesburg, Vermont. Thanks.
    #58
  19. Don't shoot me!!!

    Don't shoot me!!! Snowflakes are cold...

    Joined:
    May 5, 2006
    Oddometer:
    569
    Location:
    Norway
    Where will you get the rally kit?
    Do you plan to make the rear tank your self?
    Same with the kickstarter, it's a lot of kickback in that engine...
    #59
  20. flyben

    flyben Adventurer

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Oddometer:
    68
    the kickstarter is already on the engine :-)
    quite easy to use

    the reartank i would like to buy some azzalin one .. too expensive
    it's a currently working project ..
    I'll make some photos when I'll begin
    #60