Elite 110. What are the break-in procedures in Owners Manual?

Discussion in 'Battle Scooters' started by Inoplanetyanin, May 18, 2013.

  1. Inoplanetyanin

    Inoplanetyanin One day closer!

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    Does anyone have the owners manual? Could you please look up the break in page and let me know what it says there?
    I will be riding an Elite cross country in a week. I will be picking it up new and have to cover 430 miles in the next 24 hours.
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  2. longhaul747

    longhaul747 Been here awhile

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    I have an Elite 110 but I don't have the manual for it handy. I seem to remember it was pretty vague when it came to break in procedure though. Generally you want to avoid extended wide open throttle for any extended length of time and try to very your speed as much as possible. Its also not good to cover all 430 miles without letting it completely cool off at least a few times. The heat cycling helps things seat in place in theory. Also its a good idea to check your oil level when you can because its not unheard of for a new motor to consume a bit of oil. These scooters don't hold much so it does not take much loss for it to be a problem.

    Really they are 90% broken in from the factory and with a little care they will fully break in without issue. On my Elite 110 you could actually feel the motor breaking in and loosening up as the miles piled on. When brand new it was pretty thrashy above 40 MPH but after a few hundred miles that was not an issue.
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  3. fullmetalscooter

    fullmetalscooter Let me take this duck off

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    DId you buy the elite 110 I was going to get Last week at Burnaby bc Kaw last week? I hate you if so. :dog Went to hop on a bus to buy it but it was gone :eek1. Search the battle scooter forum I post the info on it including the Manual link 3 weeks ago. Don't worry that it says Honda Lead 110 that the name of the elite 110 over in Europe. Also youtube honda elite 110 you ll find that one guy post videos on it including the 600 miles vale agustinment . Break in basic for it. Do a once over at the end of 2 week for lose nuts and bolts. Just a quick once over. You ll more then likely have no issue that way but it never hurts. How old are your Tires? Anything over 3 year means its time to change them. Tires age from the inside out and it's not worth you hurting yourself over 60 bucks . see here how to read the tires code. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=11
    Change the Tranny oil to 80 gear oil when you do the 600 miles once over with the value agestment . Replace the engine oil every 1200 miles . Change out the anti freeze if you don't know how old it is .

    with the manual link I posted 2 weeks ago you ll have to rename it was the .pdf becasue it download with out that at the end. once you do you ll have a good manul. Any custom part are going to coming from Japan. Eg the Fuel injection control that add 5 mph to it. You can get Gears for the tranny that up the speed. clutches etc . The parts even with shipping from there don't break the bank. From my reading there are no Kevlar belts for it but Dr pulley does make sliders for it. They ll up your speed 1 or 2 mph. Cost is 25 bucks . Basic problem is the OEM fuel injection has a Rev limbitor that kick in around 53 MPH.
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  4. Inoplanetyanin

    Inoplanetyanin One day closer!

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    Thanks for the reply. I do have the service manual (downloaded the one that needed to be renamed. It's awesome. I uploaded it to my phone and will be taking along on the trip).

    But I still want to see what the owner's manual says about break-in procedures.

    BTW, I am going to keep it stock. I believe that will give it maximum reliability. 52 mph is plenty enough for me as I am coming from a 35 mph Metropolitan.
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  5. fullmetalscooter

    fullmetalscooter Let me take this duck off

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    At least get the DR pully sliders which will help you onl hillls etc . Any scooter shops should have them . Rear shock is 330 mm From what I understand a common shock size. If the stock one is not cutting it you can go to air one for under 100 bucks.
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  6. Inoplanetyanin

    Inoplanetyanin One day closer!

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    Thanks but I don't want to use any non-oem parts if possible. I believe that for the most part, an OEM part will offer most reliability for the scooter as a whole. Many unforeseen problems develop as a result of using aftermarket parts that were not designed to be compatible with the rest of the scooter. :) Thanks though!:deal
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  7. Inoplanetyanin

    Inoplanetyanin One day closer!

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    Anyone with a manual who can look up the break-in procedures? I need to know them to plan the initial trip ( an oil change, stop, etc).

    Does it mention 600 miles or some other distance before a full throttle operation is recommended?

    Does anyone know if Elite 110 has a special break in oil in it?
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  8. longhaul747

    longhaul747 Been here awhile

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    I don't believe these came from the factory with special break in oil in them. I believe Honda dealers put regular Dino oil in them when they prep for delivery. Likely Honda 10W-40 or 10W-30 they sell in the parts department.

    At 600 miles its called for an oil change and valve inspection adjustment. Most don't need a valve adjust but every once in a while they will. Procedure is the same and many shops just end up resetting them during the inspection.

    If you really want to be picky you could do an early oil change at 60 to 100 miles just to get out whatever machining bits may be present but to be honest I have not see any when I did an early oil change on my Elite 110. So I don't consider this mandatory like in the old days. As long as the oil gets changed by 600 miles you will do fine.

    The engine in the Elite 110 is pretty conservative and its governed at a maximum 52 to 53 MPH. Even at max speed the engine does not seem to be stressed at all.

    You may experience a bit of roughness when the engine is brand spanking new. Mine was pretty rough above 40 to 45 MPH but within the 1st 100 to 200 miles it seemed to loosen up. By 200 miles it was as good as broken in and had no problem reaching the rev limiter and was butter smooth at that point.

    What I would do is plan your trip so within the 1st 100 miles you don't exceed 45 MPH. Try to very your speed as much as possible. Then after 100 miles you should be free to hit max speed as long as you very your engine speed in the 1st 600 miles.

    Also check for oil consumption. If an engine is going to use oil it will be when its brand new. However these leave the factory 99% broken in so I would not expect it to burn any oil under normal circumstances. A few Elite 110 owners do report some oil loss between changes so be aware that its a possibility.

    Last but not least don't forget to service the final drive. Honda specs engine oil for this but I use Honda 80W-90 final drive oil. Its good and pretty cheap plus comes in an easy to use bottle. Once you change the final drive oil at 600 miles you should be good for a while. Once the gears are meshed in very little wear takes place and in reality the oil will last a long time back there. However changing it every few years is not a half bad idea just for the warm and fuzzy feeling you get when you do it. Its not hard just be sure and use new 8MM crush washers or it may continue to dribble oil causing annoyance.

    Sorry I still don't have the manual handy but it was pretty vague regarding break in procedures. More info here for you then you will get out of the owners manual.
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  9. JerryH

    JerryH Long timer

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    I have never followed the manufacturers break in procedure, IMO it will actually harm the engine. You need to do a few full throttle runs to seat the rings during the first 50 miles. Going to slow during that time will cause the cylinders to glaze and the rings won't seat. Your engine will always be down on power, and burn oil.

    Manufacturers break in mileage can vary considerably. The older Met had a break in period of 50 miles, while the Zuma 125's is 600 miles. IMO, any modern engine, that was built right (Chinese and Indian made not included) is going to be 99.9% broken in within the first 50 miles. My Genuine Stella had a break in period of 1200 MILES But this was an ancient design and very poorly made engine. The design is actually not bad, but the poor clearances and cheap metal it is made out of are a serious issue.

    This is how I break in properly built engines, such as any Honda.



    http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
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  10. Inoplanetyanin

    Inoplanetyanin One day closer!

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    Thanks Jerry and Longhaul.

    For the final drive, Honda service manual calls 10w30 and that is a big difference in viscosity compared to weght 80/90. To be honest, I wouldn't use such thick oil for the rear drive just because if you look at the pictures of it disassembled, there are many fine bearings and gears with very fine pitch. I think it's because of the delicate nature of the parts in the transmission, Honda calls for a thin weight oil (30).
    The Metropolitan, on the other hand, and the Ruckis, have a very basic gearing in the back and both call for Hypoid/ Gear oil weight 80.

    I will replace the engine oil in 50 miles. I will ride the scoot back to my brother's house in Huntsville to do the change. I don't know if the oil in it is Chinese or been changed at the dealer. It's better to be on the safe side.

    The 50 miles ride will also let me see if any unexpected issues arise.

    Im going to immediately take the front cover off to install the fused wire with a socket from the batter to the front storage compartment, to power my gps and charge the phone.

    I will be carrying a passenger on the back, so the space advantage over the PCX is going to be really welcome. :D
    Planning has been fun for the past few months. Picking it up on June 29th.:*sip*
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  11. longhaul747

    longhaul747 Been here awhile

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    80W-90 gear oil is actually pretty close in viscosity to a 10W-30/40 motor oil. With gear oil you get better shear stability and it will protect better and last longer.

    In reality the final drives in these scooters are not high pressure and any oil is better then no oil. As long as you change it regularly it really does not matter what you use.

    However speaking from experience when motor oil was used in the final drive it drained out with the viscosity of water and was pitch black in color. I got the impression that the oil had been put through the ringer. A spec'ed final drive oil will still flow like oil should and will not be as dark as when regular motor oil is used. Of coarse in the case when regular oil was used in one of my scoots I did not see much if any metallic glitter in the oil so the regular motor oil did protect as it should. I am just glad I changed it on schedule.

    So use what you want with confidence. Either one will work just fine. I prefer real gear oil but it does not really matter much.
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  12. DaBinChe

    DaBinChe Long timer

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    For break in don't worry about revving it up just keep varying the revs. As for the final drive I used gear oil the last time I changed it and did again this time too and did see in the service manual that it calls for 10w-30 motor oil after you mentioned it. Looking at the service manual diagram of the final drive it doesn't look any different from the met/ruck. I believe Honda calls for the motor oil to save fuel because of the lower drag compared to gear oil. I'm gonna leave the gear oil in and not worry about it.
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  13. Inoplanetyanin

    Inoplanetyanin One day closer!

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    Thanks. I plan to use a synthetic oil in it. Around 10w30.
    Here are the pictures of the final drive I was referring to:

    [​IMG]

    You can see these bearings. They don't have a lot of clearance in them, so it's crucial for the oil to be able to flow to properly lubricate them. Weight 30 flows significantly better than weight 50 among motor oil. I don't know how gear oil corresponds in viscosity index to motor oil but gear oil has always looked much much thicker in my experience.
    [​IMG]
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  14. Inoplanetyanin

    Inoplanetyanin One day closer!

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    I am not convinced that 10w30 that honda recommends is to increase fuel efficiency. That's what they recommend for UK and Thailand where motor oils in new hondas are much thicker than in US , like 5w40 instead of what is recommended in new honda cars nowdays 0w20.

    So if the thinner oil was explained by a motivation to increase fuel efficiency in the US sold scooters, they would recommend gear oil in the rest of the world, but seems like they don't.

    Look at the final drive bearing. I have a feeling that gear oil will simply not lubricate it as it will not get inside enough to coat the balls's surfaces sufficiently.

    Look at this image. It's another view of the Elite's final drive. [​IMG]
    Now look at the ruckus final drive.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Maybe it's subjective, but it seems to be simpler than the Elite's.
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  15. fullmetalscooter

    fullmetalscooter Let me take this duck off

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    OEm parts for popular scooter are more cash and don't offer anything much . At least when it come to non china parts like Kevlar belts , Slider , clutches , clutch springs you get better then Honda ever put out. Eg 80 bucks for honda helix belt or 40 Bucks for Non OEM Kevlar Belt that is tougher then stock. I understand what you re saying but I would want the best for my ride not just something the OEM maker gets made to the lowest bucks that can and then makes a 500 % profit on. Eg cn250 Muffler Clamps 20 bucks OEM . Thats insane for 50 cent Item.
    As to Gear Oil Everyone on the Ch250 Elite board uses it. Randy P whom Is a top of the line expert on this stuff says use 80 weight gear oil. Lets break this Down Car oil breaks down with HIGH use and temp. That what happening in the tranny. Low volume oil , Low change rate. Gear OIL is made for Gears . Long lasting . What you re saying I feel doesn't make sense because gear oil get but in Million of places where Gears like this need to be lubed. Not one person here or anywhere that I ve read , has said #)($U* Gear oil cause my parts to fail. They ve said things Like I did fill it up etc . Left bolt etc. In 5 years of using gear oil I ve not had issues myself . As far as I know honda said 10 w 40 .
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  16. Inoplanetyanin

    Inoplanetyanin One day closer!

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    I've been reading all over the net on the question of gear oil vs recommended 10w30 and i'm still undecided.

    10w30 is also recommended in Yamaha Zuma 125 and the C 3.

    I've read that the viscosity are similar. But still, I doubt Honda just tried to make it easier so only one oil can be used. Honda requires plenty of special fluids, adhesives, greases, etc for Elite 110, so I think there must be a reason the service manual calls for it.

    Obviously everyone will use whatever they want and feel safe with but I am still undecided. Will do more research.

    Came across this along the way... http://www.redlineoil.com/content/files/tech/MTL and MT-90 Tech Info.pdf
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  17. DaBinChe

    DaBinChe Long timer

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    Don't be fooled by aftermarket mombo jumbo. The quality is not even close compared to original Honda parts. Aftermarket parts performs differently and that is just that difference in results but that doesn't mean the quality is better. Many claim high performance and maybe they are and maybe they aren't but that doesn't transfer to better quality. An aftermarket kevlar belt does nothing in the performance department nor do they last longer, stock is best.
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  18. DaBinChe

    DaBinChe Long timer

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    As for the final drive oil. NO ONE knows hondas better then Honda. If they say 10w-30 then it will be fine. I don't see anything wrong with using gear oil except if the bearings really do have tighter tolerences that calls for the thinner oil. I don't think this to be the case and still think it is there to save fuel...well maybe not save more fuel but reduce emissions. If you use less fuel you'll also have lower emissions. The US more recently has gotten stricter on emissions then what they once were for bikes.

    In the pictures of the met final drive what you don't see is that once you take the actual gears/shafts off they look just like the elite. They both have three shafts with corresponding gears and bearings.
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  19. Inoplanetyanin

    Inoplanetyanin One day closer!

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    I agree about the belt. If a belt is much harder than the original design, it will be wearing out the driven faces of the variator and the clutch assemblies, both of which are significantly more expensive to replace than the belts.
    It's similar with metallic brake pads that last forever but force the owner to replace brake rotors instead...
    :freaky
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  20. JerryH

    JerryH Long timer

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    I use 10w40 in the engine of my Zuma 125. IMO, 10w30 is simply too thin and does not have enough load bearing ability. The manual did indeed say to use engine oil in the final drive, but when I drained out the original oil, it was definitely GL gear oil, so I put 80w90 GL gear oil back in. That was 4,000 miles ago. I have changed it once since then, with the same thing, and had no problems.

    I believe manufacturers of all vehicles, including cars, recommend the super thin oils to please the EPA, not because they are what is best for the engine. I also use 10w40 in my 25,000 mile Vino 125, and 20w50 in my 3 motorcycles, as well as my '64 Fairlane, '72 Pinto, and '93 S-10 hot rod/drag racer. To me saving a tiny amount of gas is peanuts compared to the value of a good engine. The EPA also likes engines to wear out faster, so people will replace their vehicles with newer ones sooner. This is common knowledge among older mechanics. Younger ones just out of school have often been programmed with all that EPA rubbish. Just like anyone should know that warming up an engine before putting a load on it is universally a good idea for many reasons, yet most vehicle owners and many newer mechanics have been convinced it is no longer necessary. BS.
    #20