Elite 150 trouble

Discussion in 'Battle Scooters' started by Ken11, Aug 26, 2010.

  1. Ken11

    Ken11 Adventurer

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    So I have a Honda Elite 150. I ride it a lot and have many miles on it. But just recently it has been having a problem. It will run good sometimes, while running like shit other times. It does this on and off and on, constantly. It is like it is a pissed off horse or something. I read some of the forums on here about the scoots that did exactly this. It seemed to me that the auto by starter or the carburetor were the common problems causing this. So I put a brand new carburetor in the Elite, which had a new by starter. It did really nothing at all. It is weird, sometimes it will run awesome, and easily do 65+ mph, and cruise along effortlessly at 55 mph, while other times it will run slower than my mini bike. It does it randomly, weather does not have anything to do with it. I have checked over almost everything on the whole bike. It just started doing this within the last 1000 or so miles. I checked all the basic things, like the fuel system and the air filer. The carb is on very tight, the air box is tight onto the carburetor, and it just does this all the time. I have tired just about everything, warming up the bike and many other things.

    Another thing it has started very recently is this weird thing it does, usually when I am cruising at about 50 mph, it will start. So I cruise at around 50 on a back road, and it will feel like someone is tapping the rear brake with their foot on and off. It will suddenly screech to 35 mph, and then literally shoot to 55 mph like a rocket. It does this many times. It also does it with so much force that I almost fall off the bike! I have no idea what the hell this could possibly be! I have worked on quite a few engines, and this bike really makes me wonder. It is also becoming dangerous, as it does this on interstates at times, and I have to pull it over and let it rest. It bugs me when it happens while I am riding with friends, as I cannot keep up off the line or at over 45 mph. It is also weird that it will run like the 50 to 30 to 50 thing only when I give it more than half throttle.

    I would greatly appreciate any suggestions or help!
    #1
  2. fullmetalscooter

    fullmetalscooter Let me take this duck off

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    carb cleaning. Take the rear wheel off and look at the brakes. Look at the brake lines to see if they are free and clear. When did you lub the cables and wd40 isn't a cable lub. Throttle cable should be look at and lubed up. there is a normal reason you suddly are getting surges , beyond that have you ever done anything the drive and driven face? eg rollers , belt, clutch?
    #2
  3. btcn

    btcn Long timer

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    It could be your ignition system, like the spark wires could be loose or something. It sounds like there is shitty fuel or something, try using different gas. A really bad spark plug could be the case, so replacing it might not be a bad idea.

    That does sound dangerous, I would stay off of major roads if possible. I would first check the spark plug and replace it, then check all the ignition wires [On the box that the spark plug connects to] and check valve timing. Good luck!
    #3
  4. tcjames.yu

    tcjames.yu Adventurer

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    I cannot agree more with what you said, 99% caused by the ignition system you may check coil, spark plug or both, I think it was gone.
    #4
  5. Dabears

    Dabears --------------------

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    This could be way off base, but could you possibly have flecks of junk in your gas tank that periodically block your fuel pickup screen? Given the discription of the sudden slow down/rapid take off it sounds like something is cutting off your air, fuel, or spark.

    I will tell you that once years ago I had a Kawasaki 750 triple that had a pinhole in one of the plugwires- it would run great then suddenly start grounding against the frame. Once I figured out the cause it was an easy fix, but until I shocked the heck out of myself feeling around for a short it was a bugger to find.

    At this point do not assume anything is working as it should or you may overlook something simple. Obviously your motor is in great shape or it wouldn't be able to run at sustained speeds like you mention.
    #5
  6. Ken11

    Ken11 Adventurer

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    Yea I am starting to think it could might be the ignition system. It is also now backfiring like crazy when it does this, so it could be bad spark timing or plug. Now it seems like it is running great at any speeds below 50 mph. 45 mph is a solid easy cruise, as long as you stay below 50. It will never loose power below this speed. But once I take it to 50 and over, it will bog and back fire like crazy. It seems like if the spark plug was misfiring at these speeds, it could cause a loss of power and backfiring, because the fuel that came in just went to the muffler unburned. I am not saying that anything else could have caused this, but it seems pretty logical for the spark or ignition system to have a problem. Any suggestions on that? Thanks for the help so far.
    #6
  7. btcn

    btcn Long timer

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    If it is backfiring, then it sounds like a bad muffler gasket. I have heard that this can possibly cause the engine to run lean. Elite scooters are prone to bad muffler gaskets! I have gone through two already, and mine is already going bad again! Try and pop a new one in there, they are like $2.00.
    #7
  8. c_mccann

    c_mccann Adventurer

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    Try the CDI, mine went south, acted goofy- intermittent starting issues. If you have a new carb, it is a new carb and the new carb makes it perform as the old carb did- it is not the carb at this point.
    #8
  9. brockster

    brockster Despair & Repair Garage

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    Yep, mine has been doing the same thing. I'm thinking that the plastic heat guard that was not on the bike was part of the issue - it goes between the top of the engine and the fuel line where it first comes out of the petcock fitting on the bottom of the gas tank. My next step is to try and get a good used alternator with pulse generator for mine. Muffler gaskets are more like $5.00-$6.00 bucks from your Honda parts department.
    #9
  10. Ken11

    Ken11 Adventurer

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    Yea I am going to try using a new exhaust gasket. I bought a couple of new ones. This is the only other logical thing to stop this thing from running good, I have checked everything else. It is so damn weird though. It runs like a dream at 45 mph, and has plenty of power and low RPMs. But right when you hit 50, it bogs and runs like crap and backfires like crazy. I have heard that a bad exhaust gasket in some cases can cause an engine to run lean, and mine is not in very good shape. It does run a lot better at low speeds with the new carb because it has a new auto by starter, and it actually works unlike mine ever did. A weird thing is the other night I was riding on a back road on my way home and it back fired loudly and it shot off like a rocket! I hit 70 mph and it would accelerate like crazy, faster than it would ever run. Then once I got to my driveway it started running like crap again. I can not think of a reason for this, but I do think the exhaust gasket is involved. Thanks for the replies so far! I hope the new gaskets help. I would appreciate any other ideas!
    #10
  11. bbishoppcm

    bbishoppcm It ain't a moped.

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    You might want to check your valve clearance as a precaution, as improper valve clearance can cause some strange driveablity problems. So just to clarify; is the engine racing as the bike is slowing down? This would be a drivetrain problem (slipping belt or clutch, stuck variator, etc).
    #11
  12. Ken11

    Ken11 Adventurer

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    I will check the valve clarence. The engine does not really seem to be racing as I am slowing down, although backfiring is not uncommon when slowing down. I looked at the transmission a little, but I did not get to deep into it. It is a pretty weird problem though. Another strange thing that happened in the last couple if days it this thing sort of like kicked into race mode. It has wheelie pooping power off the line. It would move effortlessly at 55 mph, like its not even trying. It does this once in a while now, but it usually runs like crap, backfires and will not go over 50 mph without bogging and backfiring. But it truly runs very well under 50 mph all the time! I just cannot figure out the problem!

    Thanks for the input so far, I would take any more suggestions into consideration.
    #12
  13. nacree

    nacree Adventurer

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    Check the rubber boot that the carburetor mounts to- many times they are cracked and set up a major air leak. Sometimes the cracks are small and hard to see but they still cause a huge problem. Kind of a PITA to get to but you need to make sure that this is not the issue because it will cause the motor to run way lean and you could end up melting a piston or burning the exhaust valve.

    it is number 5 in the attached picture (from bikebandit.com)
    #13
  14. nacree

    nacree Adventurer

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    Forgot attachment. See number 5 in this picture.

    ****ing picture will not upload- anyone know why (get upload failed message)?
    #14
  15. Ken11

    Ken11 Adventurer

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    Thats a good suggestion. I know what you are talking about. I kinda ignored it, since I did not really see any major cracks. I will check it out closely and replace it, as it could crack any time. I do believe it is running a bit lean, as the spark plug is whitish, and it backfires at high speeds and when decelerating. I know it is something like this. It has been running like this for as long as I can remember, but I just decided to really get into it once it can't pass 50 without having problems.

    I still have not got the damn exhaust gasket, it should be here soon. Today it ran great again, and then crappy again. It is almost like it does not run lean until you do 50 mph though. I have quite a bit of experience with motorcycles, but I have never seen something like this. I mean the on off power sort of thing and the 50 mph thing. This is what really has me wandering. I could easily run 49 mph all day, but the second you hit 50, it backfires and does that crap.

    But I will definitely check out that intake boot.
    #15
  16. Ken11

    Ken11 Adventurer

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    So I finally got the new gasket for the muffler! So I installed it. The old one looked like crap. Once I put it in, I took it for a test ride. It semi solved the problem. The good is that it would run 50 mph fairly easily, but the bad is that it still back fires now and then, especially when de accelerating. I am ordering a new intake manifold boot and air tube plus air filter. I believe it is running slightly but not too too lean. It does not overheat anymore, even in the hot weather though! Thanks for the comments. I would appreciate any more suggestions on what I could do. Thanks!
    #16
  17. brockster

    brockster Despair & Repair Garage

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    Here's another way to tell if you've blown the exhaust gasket; if the right side of the rear tire feels very warm - almost hot - to your touch (oooh bad touch) the exhaust gases are leaking out of the beginning of the exhaust assembly and are heating up the tire.
    #17
  18. btcn

    btcn Long timer

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    Yea thats definitely true. My tires always heated up when my gaskets went bad. I always wondered what caused that for quite a while. I also seem to remember a lot of backfiring when my gaskets failed too. Definitely try to get your engine to stay out of the lean side. This will easily damage your engine and they generally will run hot. It sounds like you fixed the majority of the problem, but just need to find why it backfires once in a while.
    #18
  19. Ken11

    Ken11 Adventurer

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    Mine did heat up the tires to. What's pretty weird is that now the backfiring has been completely eliminated and the performance has gone up. It is like running in fast mode all the time now, almost like it needed to adjust to the new gasket. It will easily cruise at 55 mph now and runs great! Thanks!
    #19
  20. Twisted Martini

    Twisted Martini Been here awhile

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    I have an 85 Elite 150 with about 11K miles on it. The coolant had never been changed-it was rusty as hell but also never ran hot. A few weeks ago while out on a ride, the overflow container started spitting fluid out, so it convinced me it was time to change it.

    This morning I popped the screw off the the water pump, drained it all out, started the motor and flushed it several times with water, until the outflow was almost clean. Put the screw back in, filled it with 50/50, siphoned all the crap out of the overflow container. Buttoned it back up and went for a ride. About 10 min in, I noticed that i was running really hot, almost pegged. I immediately turn for home and check my service manual. It said to bleed the air out, which I didn't do, so I did that and put a little more coolant in. Take it out again, and it runs better,but still hot. On idle it pegs again, but once you get moving it goes down to 3/4 hot. Before I did this, it never went above 1/2 hot, even with the old coolant in there.

    What did I do, disrupt some coolant demon from the ancient world?
    #20