Enduralast from Euro Motoelectrics

Discussion in 'Airheads' started by BlackHoof, Sep 15, 2005.

  1. sharkey

    sharkey XLV750R

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2003
    Oddometer:
    875
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    I love the way those engines look ... anyone know where I can find a big piccie of the HPN Sport?

    Of course, there's not much point unless you're planning on
    replacing the frame ...

    -----sharks
    #21
  2. Frank Warner

    Frank Warner Traveller

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2002
    Oddometer:
    6,593
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Umm .. no frame replacement on the airheads - reinforcement yes.

    Oilheads is a differnet matter.

    You need to vist Paul Rooney - next time yer up Grafton way. Seeing things in the fleash is so much better. Was there two weeks ago - one R65GS (light weight and low), a R100 with oilhead rear end, and two others ... all being built up for customers. Maybe the next Horizons Unlimited meeting? Oct next year.
    #22
  3. johnrayski

    johnrayski EuroMotoElectrics

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2004
    Oddometer:
    14
    The EnDuraLast permanent magnet rotor is about ~ -1 ounce lighter than the OE Bosch rotor I have weighed on my my scale. As previously stated it is about ~ -3 ounces lighter than high output aftermarket rotor. JR

    The Stator / Rotor / SCR Rectifier are all sourced as a matched set from the Original Equipment Manufacturer ; mounting the Volt Reg / Rectifier close to the stator and in airstream should provide reliable voltage and long term life. JR
    Thx for the opportunity to clarify !
    #23
  4. Bigger Al

    Bigger Al Still a stupid tire guy

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2004
    Oddometer:
    8,026
    Location:
    Auburn, CA
    Sharkey,
    Try HPN's web site. There's a menu on the left with a photo gallery that includes some gorgeous high-res photos. Makes me feel all dizzy (in a good sort of way) every time I look at them. :drif :drif :drif
    #24
  5. sharkey

    sharkey XLV750R

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2003
    Oddometer:
    875
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Oh. Yes, that'd be it. Geez, I'm a tool :-).

    -----sharks
    #25
  6. Donkey Hotey

    Donkey Hotey De Jo Momma

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2005
    Oddometer:
    12,393
    Location:
    20 Mule Team Trail (Palmdale, Ca)
    And now for the opposing view :turkish

    Okay, not trying to stir the pot here, just trying to point out the differences between the Omega and EnduraLast kits. I for one prefer the design of the Omega and this is why:

    • The BMW and Omega systems only generate the current that they need. That's why they have the wound rotor and brushes. So does every car on the road. Motorcycles have suffered the woes of fixed output alternators for years. Only the most expensive and heavily taxed electrical systems get air cooled, variable output alternators (Gold Wings, BMWs).
    • The Omega has a greatly improved (automotive) diode block compared to the stock BMW system. The stock diode board and ground harness in the Airhead is a sorry joke and that's why the bike's charging system has earned such a poor reputation. I retrofitted a GM diode block to my 88 GS, rewired the battery feed. It solved all the problems with the stock system except the available current.
    • Yes, the BMW and Omega diode board is mounted inside the engine. So is the diode board in all of our cars (inside the alternator case and THEN bolted to the engine).
    • The EnduraLast system puts out 450 watts--ALL THE TIME. That's the problem with almost all motorcycle charging systems (not just the EnduraLast). Every watt that you don't burn running lights, grips or whatever, has to be burned by that voltage regulator. Turn off the headlight and the regulator has to burn 60 more watts. How? It shunts it to ground. That's why the heat sink is so large. For those who believe that the EnduraLast does away with diodes, it doesn't. They're in the regulator block and fail and overheat just like the stock one. In fact, they are ALWAYS passing full output so in reality, they will run hotter than the Omega or Thunderchild board.
    • In all fairness, the EnduraLast DOES do away with brush replacement. For heavy off road use, the extra reliability of doing away with the brushes, the brush holder and all the interconnects should add to vibration-related reliability.
    • On the other hand, the nature of a fixed output system (such as the EnduraLast) means that reliability will suffer in sustained high speed, warm weather riding. If you're not sucking all that extra wattage to run your lights, electric vests and such, the regulator can overheat and fail. My Goldwing used to nuke a regulator like clockwork, every 60K. It was always after a high speed, long mileage trip.
    So I'm just trying to present both sides. I've now got Bcostell's old Omega system (got here tonight--thanks a million!). I guess for off road or long distance, low speed slogging, the EnduraLast is a more rugged design. For typical American road touring with occasional off road use, the Omega system is a more elegant solution that addresses the weaknesses in the stock BMW design (diode block and ground harness). YMMV.
    <SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_1842858", true); </SCRIPT>
    #26
  7. sharkey

    sharkey XLV750R

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2003
    Oddometer:
    875
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Sorry Greg, but that's just not true. It's a switching design. See the technical information on the website.

    -----sharks
    #27
  8. Donkey Hotey

    Donkey Hotey De Jo Momma

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2005
    Oddometer:
    12,393
    Location:
    20 Mule Team Trail (Palmdale, Ca)
    I've just read their PDF on the subject. You are correct. I'm not if sure that's how the other manufacturers do it. I still believe its a less reliable design. The Thyristors are having to deal with switching the full output of the system rather than a 'normal' regulator simply controlling a field coil.

    I was just trying to point out that like everything, there is no clear winner. It just depends on how you intend to use it as to which design comes out on top. The EnduraLast has its place.

    Forums like this tend to exagerate claims and this was starting to look like "hey, everybody should dump their alternators--even if they're Omegas and go get this new system...it's how BMW should have done it in the first place."

    Unfortunately, every failure that I've had of this 'type' of system has been regulator AND stator. My guess is the electronics fail first (to ground) which overheats the stator and 'blam' they're both toast. My 86 Goldwing (500 watts) blew the charging system every 60K, like clockwork (three of them). After number one, I moved the regulator out to fresh air. It did nothing for the longevity. My friend's 95 Honda Shadow did exactly the same thing (50K).

    Thanks for keeping me honest though :D
    #28
  9. bcostell

    bcostell Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2005
    Oddometer:
    192
    Location:
    San Fran Bay Area
    Hi Greg, glad to see the Omega arrived. To clarify from a personal perspective .... I think both are great systems, but my needs are for three identical systems, minimum spare parts and maximujm reliability on a long trek. I wouldn't encourage anyone to swap under more normal circumstances.

    Reliability can only be measured over time, but as the components are the same electrically as fitted to Ducati's I'm assuming the wrinkles have been ironed out. I work on the basis of less parts means less points of potential failure.

    I will be taking one spare reg/rect unit on my trek (for three bikes) and I'm sure that if I needed a second faster than I could get a replacement sent I could most likely jury-rig something up locally (note to self...identify South American bikes with this type of set-up).

    My understanding re. the output is that is engine speed dependant, and it's about 200watts at about 1500rpm raising up to 450W at 6k rpm (working from memory).

    After all, what we all need is more power low down, 400w vs 450w is academic for me.
    #29
  10. sharkey

    sharkey XLV750R

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2003
    Oddometer:
    875
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Yeah, I'm unlikely to ever use anything like that power no matter how silly I go with lights. The main thing is 'power at 2000rpm'.

    I've been riding Japanese bikes with permanent-magnet electrics for quite a few years now, and never had any problems. There are some troublesome models, though. I reckon at a pinch you could use two of the three phases of a UJM rec/reg with the EnDuraLast stator, if you had to.

    -----sharks
    #30
  11. Frank Warner

    Frank Warner Traveller

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2002
    Oddometer:
    6,593
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia

    Thyristors are designed to switch large currents. I've seen some very large ones. They are used to controll lifts! Mean Time between Falure calculations are used to estimate reliablity in the design stage.

    The problem is the design is not for reliablity alone, but for cost, asthetics and marketing. Oh and profit.
    #31
  12. SmutMug

    SmutMug Banned

    Joined:
    May 29, 2004
    Oddometer:
    40
    I installed my system this week and played around. Here as some pics and a write-up. I asked and obtained permission from bcostell to use some of his pics.


    Nov 4, 2005



    I just returned from a test ride with my R80RT after installing an Enduralast 450 Watt system from http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/enduralast.html



    The bottom line is that from about 1200-1300 rpm onwards, the system puts out 14.1 to 14.2 volts. At idle, it’s between 12.4 and 12.6 volts. I installed a Datel volt meter to give me a constant read-out during riding. I puttered through town this evening and briefly hopped on the freeway. At all points the voltage was constant between 14 and 14.2. Yesterday, after ensuring I had rigged everything up correctly, I wired up an electric vest and a 70 Watt power inverter to the battery. Flicking the high beam on and off at idle makes the voltage blip, but it returns a steady number after a second or so. Since the inverter and jacket didn’t seem to make a difference in the voltage readout yesterday, I did not wire them up for the test ride.



    The kit contains a rotor (solid magnet) and stator, a mounting bracket, a rectifier and a bewildering array of little wires and connectors, of which you end up using a fraction. There’s even a rotor puller bolt included.



    The installation is relatively straightforward, but you do need to read the manual carefully. The wiring diagram is a no-brainer. Since I am going to move this system to my G/S in a few months, I did not bother removing any of the original wiring. Since none of it is needed in the meantime, I taped up all the ends and left them where they were.



    Installation:

    First job is to remove the original stator, rotor, diode board and voltage regulator. I left the voltage regulator in place courtesy of two spun screws.

    Mounting the rotor is the same procedure as a regular one. Since we’re dealing with a solid magnet rotor, you want to make sure your wallet and credit cards are not in the vicinity. I wondered about the Hall sensor with this thing nearby, but a timing light check confirmed nothing had changed.



    The stator is mounted between two aluminum brackets and screwed into place with 3 screws in the same location as the original. No brushes here … this is a “contact-less” system. As with the original stator, you need to slowly easy it into place and tighten the screws in turn. There is one big wire going up and out of the front cover cavity, that’s it. The only other wire under the front cover after the install is the wire to the timing can (for post-81 machines). Lots of space to mount a small box with tools where the diode board was… hmm.



    I ended up mounting the rectifier to a frame tube and ran a car-size ground wire to the battery negative. This was pure laziness on my part, as others have installed this rectifier under the tank after removing the voltage regulator. It fits in that space.



    The wiring is simple: The voltage regulator plug ground and blue wire are used (with spade connectors), a wire (with provided 30 amp fuse) to battery positive. Two plugs connect the rectifier to the stator, one wire connects to a switched positive. For the latter you need to bare a (small) wire that gets “hot” when the ignition is on and splice one in. That’s about it.



    I spent most of my time trying to figure out where I wanted to mount the rectifier … the RT has less space than other configurations and I could not remove the voltage regulator. In hindsight, I preferred it that way.



    During riding I noticed not much difference, except that my stock voltage regulator was reading much higher than before. It’s nice to know that even when you’re loitering through town you’re not draining the battery. I was somewhat concerned that given the strength of the magnet, there would be more drag on the motor and hence I’d have to adjust idle (more fuel consumption…) but that proved to be unfounded. As well, the rotor weighs less than the stock one. I touched the rectifier at the end of the ride to see if it had heated up, but it was cold.



    I’m going to eye-ball this setup for a while and decide whether I want to move this over to the G/S. This whole thing started when I contacted John Rayski (Euromoto Electrics) and quizzed him on whether he wanted to have a “guinea pig” for his new system. He was happy to provide me a system, gratis, for which my thanks. Next April, I’m off for a LONG trip across Europe to China and beyond. In order to eliminate the need for carrying an extra rotor and diode board, as well have better charging, I want to take this setup. Since it’s on the RT, I’ll put ample mileage on it between now and then to provide me with enough comfort to put it on the G/S.



    Pictures of the rectifier mounting:



    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]



    Pictures of another install (used with permission):



    Comparison of 3 rotors: The middle one is the Enduralast one. The others are stock and the rotor used by Motorrad Electric. The Enduralast is the lightest.



    [​IMG]



    GS install:



    [​IMG]



    Rectifier install on the same GS:



    [​IMG]



    Pictures at various speeds:



    Note: The digital voltage readout at the left in the pictures below is about 0.2 volts below what I measured at the battery with the same voltage meter. Probably due to some loss as I spliced the volt meter into a switched circuit up front. The high beam is on during the test.



    800 rpm

    [​IMG]



    1000 rpm

    [​IMG]



    1100 rpm

    [​IMG]



    1500 rpm

    [​IMG]



    http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/enduralast.html
    #32
  13. matteo

    matteo HPM

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2005
    Oddometer:
    500
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    I got my Enduralast alternator today. Very nice unit. Installing it mechanically was very straightforward. The electrical not so easy. I think that Euromotoelectric would do well to make this simpler. I understand that the different models have different needs, but all situations use the yellow to yellow connection and that still required some work to make the connection.

    So first of all, I want to thank bcostell and sharkey for their photos. It helped a lot. But I'm still confused about the white and black connector. Where is the best place to hook them up? The instructions say to connect it to a green/blue wire, but bcostell, I think you say to hook it up to the blue wire. Is this the blue wire to this connector.

    [​IMG]

    This connector is not currently attached to anything. It makes me think that I did something wrong.

    Finally, I disconnected a blade from the starter when I was removing the old harness. I think this is engages the starter motor. Is this the same black wire as is on the hanging connector?

    I'm pretty sure it was connected to the right side of the diode board, as seen in this picture.

    [​IMG]

    I'm embarrassed to say that I didn't keep a note on where the starter wire came from.

    Thanks in advance for all your help.
    #33
  14. bcostell

    bcostell Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2005
    Oddometer:
    192
    Location:
    San Fran Bay Area
    Assuming it's an R100GS....here's my instructions from earlier in this post.....

    The following apply to the mini loom you removed that connected to the old voltage regulator, starter motor, etc
    -----------------------------------------------------
    Take the removed little loom and carefully cut open the black sheathing.

    Remove the big rubber grommet that goes through the top of the timing cover and fit to field winding cable - the two yellow wired cable attached to the field coils. I used WD40 to help slip it off without splitting it.

    At old voltage regulator three spade connector - cut light blue wires.

    Seperate from the bundle the two spade (blue and black wires) connector with its two wires still attached.

    The Black wire should have the single spade that goes to the starter solenoid still attached.

    The blue wire that was cut above now needs to be connected to the white wire of the reg/rect unit.

    When you come to do the assembly the black wire can be squeezed in to the rear large rubber gromet at the top of the timing chest and reconnected to the starter solenoid.

    ..............end of mini loom instructions.....


    So, in your picture, the black wire from the BMW connector goes to the starter (small spade connector on the starter solenoid), the blue wire from the BMW connector goes to the white on the new reg/rect unit (this is for the dash light). Don't worry about the left over wire, put it away with all of the other bits.
    #34
  15. matteo

    matteo HPM

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2005
    Oddometer:
    500
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Thanks bcostell, for all the help. The only wire left is the black wire from the new regulator/rectifier. I guess I use the "T" splice into the green/blue wire on the ignition coil.

    Overall, I would say I'm happy with the Enduralast product. But from looking at how the wiring is done, I truly believe this is the weak point. In terms of reliability, the system is simpler than the stock and I expect it to be more robust, but I would not be surprised to find over the years that it is the harness that gives the most trouble to most owners.

    I'm going to look into upgrading the connectors for the added reliability.

    Also, from looking at the maintance papers from the previous owner, it looks like the diode board was replaced about every 20k miles. At least I don't have to deal with that going forward
    #35
  16. bcostell

    bcostell Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2005
    Oddometer:
    192
    Location:
    San Fran Bay Area
    You can splice in at the ignition coil, I felt a more robust connection would be to solder to the major connection that's wound up inside the loom just behind the steering head.....look for the barrel shaped 4 pin waterproof connector on the left hand side of the main tube, just behind the steering head. If you look carefully you'll see a bit of a bulge in the loom...I unwrapped it at that point and revealed multiple green wires crimped together which I then soldered a fresh wire to and then ran the other end to the black on the reg/rect unit.


    I agree with your sentiment on the connections....I cut them all off and used more robust connectors, solder and shrink-wrap. I have a spare reg/rect unit pre-wired so that on my trek if one of the bikes has a failure we can do a quick swap to keep us going (and order a new spare!)
    #36
  17. sharkey

    sharkey XLV750R

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2003
    Oddometer:
    875
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    I ended up unwrapping the loom where it runs along the frame and tapping into one of the blue/green wires, cut, splice, solder, heatshrink, rebundle the loom.

    Then I removed the small 'loom' which connects that two-pin connector to the regulator, diode board and starter motor.

    Then I removed the spade lugs from the two-pin connector. The black one goes directly to the cunningly hidden terminal on the starter motor (protected by a bit of heatshrink)

    The lightblue one and the wire I spliced into the loom go to a two-pin connector which goes to the EnDuraLast regulator.

    I don't own the right tools to do a proper job of crimping the wires, and I don't like those squeeze on terminals at all. So I cut, soldered and heatshrinked everything, and it's as robust as anything.

    EG: To join the double wire to the fuse holder wire, I removed the 'barrel' from the supplied yellow crimp, threw away the plastic bit, crimped the wires into the metal bit and flooded the whole thing with solder, getting it all hot enough that the solder is drawn up into the tiny spaces between the wires. Then covered it with two layers of heatshrink.

    -----sharks
    #37
  18. sharkey

    sharkey XLV750R

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2003
    Oddometer:
    875
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Yes. You should have a small bit of wiring left over with a three-pin
    connector for the old regulator, a two pin connector which matches that one left dangling, and a couple of other spade connectors which went to the diode board and starter motor.

    You just need to connect the black wire in that two-pin connector to terminal 50 of the starter motor, and the lightblue wire to the warning light output of the EnDuraLast generator.

    -----sharks
    #38
  19. matteo

    matteo HPM

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2005
    Oddometer:
    500
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Just want to follow up. Thanks for everyone's help. Got the airhead running. Still not too happy with the harness, so will be playing with it some more as I find connectors that I feel with do the job better.
    #39
  20. Malindi

    Malindi Zen Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2001
    Oddometer:
    5,425
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    So ... After a few months of the Enduralast and no noticable problems, I am faced with the ultimate decision. I am leaving April 10 for a round the world trip, lasting a few years and want to take the Enduralast instead of the stock system. I've put about 3,500 miles or so on it, with no ill effect on anyhting. My electric vest runs a tad warmer and the voltage is not impacted during its use. Has anyone runs some significant load through their system for prolonged periods of time? Is everyone still happy?

    I am awaiting a spare rectifier unit from John Rayski, just in case. But given my eperience I don't see why I could not dispense with the stock system and take this. Unless I get a torrent or oppsing views / experiences here.

    What says thee?

    Kevin
    #40