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Discussion in 'Hacks' started by 65bellett, Feb 18, 2013.
Good post..... and, no matter what annyone thinks or says we are ALL learning
Yes, gentlemen, so true! It can be difficult to draw the line between normal guidance, then constructive criticism, then 'STOP!' 'DANGER!'.
I mean no personal offense, just don't want anybody, especially some great little kids, to get hurt. Please, don't let my comments chase you away, continue to post about your build.
I just want to see good builds that are thought out.
It's all a compromise but it needs to have some basic engineering standards. Unless it's a leaner I'm looking for no flex at all. One unit.
Hell, I don't even like the idea of Heim or spherical joints used in place of an eye and clevis. Use an end that is intended to be rigid, not some linkage for a 3-point PTO.
Oh.... and Claude, just a correction on my name.
It gets botched up a bit, not Batch-tel but Bach-tel.
Just like Johann...
Don Bachtel in Nipomo.
Agree on the heims even though many well respoected builders use them.
To th eoriginal poster: Again please try and take what has been written here constructively. Most here are not prone to criticizing just to do so. I feel that everyone here at least up to this point has been trying to help you have a great build.
I may have an extra Velorex-style U-clamp kicking around somewhere that you could clamp to your downtube to replace that threaded rod. Probably not the /best/ way to do it, but I think it would hold a lot better than how it is now. Although I 'spect you could achieve the same thing with just an eye bolt and a couple lengthwise halves of pipe of an ID close to the OD of your downtube, underneath of the U bolts, to spread the force out more. They /will/ slip though, if you catch much air or big potholes, unless you torque them down to where they start crushing the downtube. I ended up welding mine to the frame to make it stop slipping.
I'm not trying to be critical either! :) Just would hate to see all that work end up breaking and/or injury! I think this is going to be a really cool build (I've always had a soft spot for REs)!!!
I likely don't know what I am talking about, but if I were me, I think I'd redesign a little bit, or add more material, trying to get triangles pointing in different directions going on. I think that would resist flex a lot better than the squareness you've got going on there. Something heading straight from the downtube to the lower subframe, without the horizontal piece of threaded rod.
I'd be a shade scared that the tubing you are using is a little too small, too. Maaaaybe if it was round, but I think you've gotta go extra beefy with the square stuff...
I did something almost exactly like that on my CB400, too, except with no welding (and a lot uglier). Hang on a sec and I'll go out and take pictures.....
Jeez, that is one dirty mowdur-sickle!!! Ignore the oil that pukes out of the valve cover; it runs just fine! >_>
My top mount there is a Velorex U-clamp. It is "stock", except that the bolt holding the clevis and eye together was replaced with a hardened bolt. I also used a flat washer on each side everywhere, and a lock washer under every nut.
The bottom front mount is two pieces of angle cut out of a worn out grain blower chute and shaped to fit the motor mount. The four (can only see one peeking out in the picture) motor mount bolts have been replaced with longer hardened bolts (so as to reach through the extra thickness of the angle. The two angle pieces are stiffened up with a piece of 3/16 sheet steel across them, which is held on with hardened 1/4" bolts.
I don't like how the clevis on the lower front has to stick out so far. It's on my list of things to change this spring, if it doesn't break first.
Both of the rear mounts are attached using short pieces of 3/16" angle iron. The lower rear bolts onto the footpeg mount, and the upper rear bolts to the fender mount. They are the threaded block and eye bolt from a couple of other velorex U-clamps, sans U-pieces. The eye bolt tightens down against the inside of the angle iron. Both of them bolted through to the angle with two high-grade bolts. These were the ones I thought were most likely to shear off, but so far they have been just fine.
This has held for me for the most part, so far, with all three wheels off the ground a few times. But I don't have any kids riding around it in, just gear, nor do I have a family to support that would be inconvenienced if I hurt myself. I lost the bolt that attaches the lower rear arm to the sidecar once. I don't know if I forgot to torque it down, or if it sheared off. After that happened, I torqued the crap out of all of those 6 with an air ratchet, and haven't had any more problems (with the sidecar, anyway; the rubber parts on that 35-year old engine are another story!).
Oh, and by the way: Take up Claude on his offer and give him a call. I did the same when I was putting mine together (though all bad design decisions of my build are mine, not his!). He's a very nice guy, and happily took time out of his day to give me a ton of excellent advice on setting up the outfit, without trying to sell me a thing. Thanks, Claude! If I ever have enough extra Real Money to get a Real Outfit built, I'll be calling you again. ;P
I think I'd have a go at using flat stock to sandwich the engine plates and up the downtube.
Couple of clever breaks for offsets and some custom blocks to surround the tube.
There's plenty of room up front for heavy wall tubing, welded and press fitted into 3/16" steel.
Pass a 16 mm stud thru the center and you'll be good to go. Grab the front two and you're half way there.
I'm still thinking about the rear. Start with cardboard and move on to masonite as templates.
Took me 9 months of figuring to do my first and only sidecar. The Greevorex.
The second one will be easier. They built Zundapps with sidecar lugs.
Don in Nipomo
Not much detail on build but here are a couple of RE sidecars courtesy Jay Leno
<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/PP9xGo_WS9A" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>
Great video, freeze framed you can almost see every detail.
Don in Nipomo
I would like to hear from the OP. The poor guys thread has kinda run away from him
Thanks for the video links. Those are both Cozy sidecars (Rocket and Euro) which are almost sold as a dealer installed accessory in the U.S. There is a site http://www.cyclesidecar.com/, that has the sidecars and mounting hardware that are RE specific as well as "Universal".
Our local RE dealer (George Rahn in Fairbanks, AK) mentioned that he's sold a couple of rigs and rides his all over the place. Plus I have the same car on my airhead.
Hi guys thankyou for all of the spirited posts in this thread. Rest assured the all thread and u bolts was not my final draft on that top mount. Sadly while riding my bike to work at 430 am i hit a kangaroo and have done a lot of damage to my elbow and arm. 8 hours In surgery so far and enough pain killers to sink a battle ship. The build will still b going ahead but will now involve the insurance company and a few others factors I hadn't previously.
Hey Bellett sorry to hear about your accident. I hope you mend quickly if you need any help I'm in Reservoir so not that far away from you.
OH, NOOOO! Sorry to hear that! Sort of what I was talking about, to expect the unexpected! Sure hope it's only a temporary setback and not major structural etc. in the arm! Please take it real easy and follow those sawbone's rules for recovery. Hopefully you'll be up and at 'em in no time and no permanent damage.
Sorry to hear about the roo incident, guess that is a problem down there.
You rest up and take care of yourself. Follow thru on all your PT.
Plenty of time to get the sidecar together.
Don in Nipomo
Same goes here. I'm in Epping so not far from you either.
Yes sorry to hear about your incident. Best wishes on a speedy recovery!
Sorry to hear about the accident, did you get to keep the roo for diner?
Also, glad to hear about the threaded rod and u-bolts. You might be like me and need to think in solid parts, much easier to see how things fit and work like that. I'd hate to think the comments I'd get if these guys saw my mock up of the XS400 sub-frame! Cut down 2X4 pieces glued together, probably should have used oak or maple for more strength!
Hope you mend fast.