Engine problems!

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by binman41, Jul 8, 2013.

  1. binman41

    binman41 Adventurer

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    [​IMG]
    Higher resolution of machined crankshaft, If you lookat the hole and then directly underneath it you can see the change in colour to the machined face, this is where I tink the surface has broken up
    #41
  2. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    That is hard to say. Many cranks have blueing on them from the forging process. I am not sure of the 8GS, but I would be cautious to take the blueing as a heat stress on a crank.
    #42
  3. Indy Unlimited

    Indy Unlimited Long timer

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    You were a busy beaver to get that done in one long day!
    Get a ring compressor.
    I would just change out the bearing most likely it blew up on its own.
    You can always measure for the crank wear.
    Rotax should be able to give you a tolerance for the crank.
    #43
  4. binman41

    binman41 Adventurer

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    So I pulled the crankshaft this morning
    [​IMG]
    Seems that you can just remove crankshaft and leave the piston assembly in situ....(I may buy a ring compresor and push pistons out anyhow). The blocks of wood were to stop the pistons sliding down and dmaging the heads/valves.... they stayed in place though.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    If you look at the crankshaft and on the centre journal where the balance rod locates you can clearly see its damaged. Looks like a new crank is needed! :(

    [​IMG]
    Running out of room on the bench now!

    I have tried to phone BMW this morning and am waiting on a phone back. The bike has full service history and only covered 14/15k miles. In my eyes I don't think the engine should be having a major failure like this. Am goingto try and get them to pay for the spares and rebuild kit (gaskets etc).... they havnt had to pay for the labour as Ive done it and will be rebuilding myself.... will let you all know how i get on.

    Parts now required list:
    • Oil and Filter
    • Antifreeze
    • Alternator (Right hand side) gasket
    • Clutch (Left hand side) gasket
    • Rocker Cover Gasket
    • Crankshaft
    • Balancing Rod connector bearing shells
    • Balancing Rod connector bolts (stretch bolts)
    • Main bearing bearing shells
    • Main beraing connector bolts (stretch bolts)
    • Piston con rod bearing shells (two sets)
    • Piston con rod bolts (two sets - stretch bolts)
    • Crankcasing 4 off stretch bolts.
    • and....inner clutch basket (clutch driver dog) as I broke my one trying to remove bolt...oooops
    #44
  5. BC61

    BC61 Long timer

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    Before buying a new crank check to see if oversized bearings are available. Often the crank journals can be resurfaced and mated with oversized bearings to make up the difference. I'd check with a crank servicing company as often the OE manufacturer only makes standard replacement bearings but there could be a large selection through the aftermarket.
    #45
  6. TK-421

    TK-421 not at my post

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    It's a shame this has happened to you and I hope BMW does agree to help you out since you're right, this looks like a legitimate parts failure, and not due to neglect or improper service. Way too early for this type of mess...

    Thank you for sharing such detailed photos and descriptions, I hope I never have my engine in this state but it's nice to see what's involved if it does ever happen.
    #46
  7. mondo2000

    mondo2000 Adventurer

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    I would definitely take the pistons out have a very close look at the crowns and ring lands. It appears the engine has suffered from low oil pressure. Do you have any idea what caused that? Was there any oil in the airbox?

    IMHO you made the right choice. If you rebuild your old engine at least you will know what you have. If you buy a used engine it will be another crap shoot.
    #47
  8. binman41

    binman41 Adventurer

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    Gona see if i can borrow a ring compressor from a mate..... The boys are into motocross so im hoping one of them has one and its universal for different size pistons? Should be i think!

    There was no oil in the airbox.....cam chain tensioner appears fine.
    #48
  9. BC61

    BC61 Long timer

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    If you can't locate a piston ring compressor there are a few shade tree mechanic ways a round it. Rings can often be manipulated by hand particularly when inserting pistons from below. Another trick is a soda/beer can. Cut the ends off so you have a flat sheet of aluminum. Wrap sheet of aluminum around pistons and rings compressing them. Insert into cylinder sleeve, push piston through.
    #49
  10. ragtoplvr

    ragtoplvr Long timer

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    you will need a new balancer connecting rod too. Anytime the bearing spins, the rod must be resized or replaced.

    Rod
    #50
  11. binman41

    binman41 Adventurer

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    Thankyou both.

    Did not know about the balance rod connector needing to be replaced! The list grows! :(
    #51
  12. Icy Roads

    Icy Roads Adventurer

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    I really hope they offer you a bunch of parts. They can be a little difficult if the work isn't done in their shops, good luck!
    #52
  13. Full Power

    Full Power Long timer

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    What is that dark, brown-ish, viscous, syrupy near-liquid coating on the internal engine assemblies?
    It looks nearly like an improvised oil substitute.
    Could that "lubrication experiment" have been the cause of your bearing seizure?
    #53
  14. binman41

    binman41 Adventurer

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    It appears to be normal Oil to me?
    #54
  15. Full Power

    Full Power Long timer

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    Any luck finding ' oversized ' bearing shells for the balance rod journal ?
    Have you inspected the oil pump for damage, or excess clearance yet ?
    It would be nice to discover the CAUSE of damage, prior to replacing parts and re-assembly.
    . My untrained eye suspects an oil starvation issue as root cause of bearing destruction.
    #55
  16. JRWooden

    JRWooden Long timer

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    Note:

    The Rotax has TWO oil pumps as it is (what I would call) a semi-dry sump design.

    and yeah, I agree with Full_Power ... a close inspection for the condition of both pumps is very important!
    #56
  17. Kiwi Tinkerer

    Kiwi Tinkerer Ross

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    I have used a large hose clamp before. They work really well.
    Use along with a piece of aluminum can, as mentioned above, in order to cover over the rough parts of the clamp. (worm gear etc.)
    (We call it aluminium on this side of the world)

    P.S. great thread. It is very interesting to see the F800 in pieces. My bike is a high mileage ex rental. So I am keen on any information on tearing it down in case I have to do the same one day.
    It has done 97,000km. The last 8,000km with me as owner. I have had no issues so far. Apart from LH hot grip which I have fixed. (Following one of the threads here)
    #57
  18. Icy Roads

    Icy Roads Adventurer

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    I can't wait to see this puppy going back together.
    #58
  19. binman41

    binman41 Adventurer

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    Hi All,

    Havent been on here in a while so an update to where the bike is.

    Contacted BMW Mottorad customer services, they didnt give a monkeys, not even a slight bit of interest in what had happened, why it had happened or how it was going to be fixed....bounced it off them a few times, different letters, different people......and they just didnt want to know.

    In my opinion I was left quite pissed that a company such as BMW took this stance. I even asked if they would provide me with spare parts at cost (without theyre very generous mark ups) and even that they werent prepared to budge. Dissapointed in BMW and they have now lost my faith. I know technically they didnt owe me a bean.....but with a bike with not many miles on and full BMW service history i at least expected them to show an interest.

    Am still planning on taking it higher and seeing what happens (Ive got nothing to loose). But please all take note off BMW's attitude towards such matters. This was a major engine component, not a small consumable/wear and tear kind of component.

    Anyhow.....

    I removed the head and pushed the pistons out of the block.....no damage to the bores they look absolutley fine. Head and valves all look good as do the pistons (apart from needing new bearing shells in their associated con rods).

    Looked around for someone to replate/grind the crank....no-one around who could do it...... plus I found a second hand (very good condition) for £150.

    Priced up the parts i required, with New bearing shelld and stretch bolts, and used crank and balance arm assembly...price was coming in at £650 (with a discount!)

    The engine being advertised on Ebay Italy was up for sale for 1200 Euros plus 150 Euros shipping.....i Managed top get it for 1200 euros all in including shipping, so just under £1000.

    Engine arrived, is now in the bike all is running and at the moment all is good.

    Please note, when i first took the bike out for a spin with the new engine (very carefully) I noticed there was a big flat spot in gears 3 and 4 at mid range through the revs....almost like the bike was hitting the limiter.....but obviously it wasnt......power on through the flat spot and the bike would start pulling again etc. Got me quite woried and I hastily rechecked the valve clearances etc.....however I since learnt that having the battery disconnected for a few weeks will reset the ECU....... the throttle position sensor (TPS) are 'automatically' adjusted on the F800GS' and basically set themselves....... someone mentioned a few hundred miles of riding and the flat sots dissapear as the TPS corrects itself.

    I have only done 50 ish miles since the new engines been in and already it is smoothing itself out and the flat spots are no where near the size they were....... ill keep you updated if it resets itself.

    Back to the original engine; I see myself having two choices. 1. sell the engine off as broken down spares... think I should be able to get £500/£600 quite easily (maybe more)
    2. Wait for cheap used crank and balance arm to come up on ebay, rebuild the engine and sell as a complete engine.....(if i do this i will sell with the invite of helping, for free, the buyer fit the engine to their bike so that i am happy i am selling them running engine with the guarantee that if it doesnt work ill take it back and refund complete).

    At the moment im holding fire on either option and just making sure that the new engine is completely fine.

    By the way.....I found putting the engine back in much easier than taking it out....with careful tagging off all the loom connections, photos and a good mecahnical mind it was quite easy. If I had to guess times, I'd say it took me 8 hopurs to strip (from complete bike with fairings) the bike down and remove engine....and probably 5/6 hours to put a new engine in and rebuild the bike back up. I had my dad help me 'steady' the engine as i was jacking it back up and into the engine...... possible by yourself but easier with two.
    #59
  20. luke-eole

    luke-eole Adventurer

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    Congrats on getting it going again!

    Mine is on the way to Riders in Cardiff to get checked over, getting towed up by my dad while I am away at work, he didnt have the time to strip it.

    Should hopefully hear from them in a few days, they sounded abit mre sypmathetic towards the situation though, just have to wait and see.

    Have fun

    Luke
    #60