Ethanol Free Baby!

Discussion in 'Battle Scooters' started by elite1, Apr 17, 2012.

  1. elite1

    elite1 Been here awhile

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    Found a place about 3 miles from my house that's carrying ethanol free 87 octane. Scoot was on fumes, so I filled her up and I also brought along a 3 gallon can. Paid 4.23 per gallon, but I am thinking is worth it. I will be anxious to see if the scoot runs any better or maybe gets a tick or 2 better mileage. I dunno.......anybody wanna chime in with their thoughts on this?
    #1
  2. ropeman@ADV

    ropeman@ADV Been here awhile

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    I always try to run the E-free gas in my bike, boat, lawn mower and chain saw. There are probably 5 stations in a 20 mile range near me that sell the non-E. Florida law says it has to be used in off-road vehicles only so you can't put it in a road bike AFAIK. I filled up a jetski and two 5 gallon cans Sunday at $4.14/gallon.

    I don't know about better milage, but it won't absorb water and seperate like the ethanol will
    #2
  3. knucklehead90

    knucklehead90 Been here awhile

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    Most of the listings on the link below are ethanol-free but it doesn't hurt to ask someone at the station. I have one about a mile from me so I tend to fill up even if the gauge isn't at half or less since there are few ethanol-free stations where the riding is best around me. I have a small SUV that gets 20-21mpg on the 10% mix we get around here. Once that station near me went ethanol-free I gave it a try - I now get 24-25mpg. Where I was getting 315 miles tops from a tank at near empty I can now get 350-360 miles. As long as ethanol-free gas is available I won't be using the ethanol crap.

    http://pure-gas.org/
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  4. hexnut

    hexnut Been here awhile

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  5. High Country Herb

    High Country Herb Adventure Connoiseur

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    Alcohol fuels use more volume to run, so you will see an improvement in mileage.

    I'm on a pit crew for a vehicle running methanol through a fuel injected V-8, and we use about 3 gallons per run. When we ran gasoline, we used about 2 gallons. Granted, this is an 800 horspower motor, but you get the idea.

    You would think the lean condiditon caused by the alcohol fuel would cause it to run hotter, but the alcohol actually cools the motor when it isn't actually burning. Red hot exhaust headers, ice cold intake manifold.:wink:
    #5
  6. CaseyJones

    CaseyJones Ridin' that train

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    Your scoot will run better. Your lawn mower will run better; and your car will not only run better but get enough better mileage to make it a wash, money-wise.

    A lot of the benefit you'll never see, except if you'd had to use gasohol for a period. Ethanol causes corrosion on everything metal - tank, jets or FI injectors, fuel pump. It makes starting harder and when it is moisture laden, as in when it's stored for a period in damp weather, a small engine shows problems much more than a bigger one.
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  7. rv-rick

    rv-rick Been here awhile

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    The whole ethanol thing is nothing but a bunch of political BS.
    The ethanol used in gasoline requires more energy to produce than it allegedly saves when mixed in gasoline, not to mention that it is more environmentally unfriendly to produce.
    It also raises food prices because it takes food crops off the market.
    If it wasn't being subsidized by taxpayers, (that's us), it would cost as much, or more, than gasoline.
    This doesn't even include all of the damage to vehicles which were never designed to run this junk.

    And now they are pushing to make it 15%. Insanity!
    #7
  8. CaseyJones

    CaseyJones Ridin' that train

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    :thumb

    X2. Bluntly, but accurately, put.
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  9. alicethomas

    alicethomas Been here awhile

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    We probably don't get Ethanol free gas in .de.
    <=5 Vol-% Ethanol and <=15% ETBE (made from Ethanol, thus not MTBE) don't need to be declared anyway.
    The less Ethanol, the more ETBE is in our fuel. Both have high octane ratings.

    Using at least 10% Ethanol is the law (2009/28/EG), end of argumentations.
    E10 is the standard fuel for common people. Police and other VIPs are instructed to use E5.

    I add 1/3 E85 to our standard E10, because it is much cheaper (1.059€/litre) than E10 (1.659€/litre) or E5 (1.699€/litre). The more Ethanol, the more energy for your money.
    But my carbureted scoot doesn't like to start with "E35" when air and engine is cold. During freezing temperatures I must use E10.
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  10. alicethomas

    alicethomas Been here awhile

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    We probably don't get Ethanol free gas in .de.
    <=5 Vol-% Ethanol and <=15% ETBE (made from Ethanol, thus not MTBE) don't need to be declared anyway.
    The less Ethanol, the more ETBE is in our fuel. Both have high octane ratings.

    Using at least 10% Ethanol is the law (2009/28/EG).
    E10 is the standard fuel for common people. Police and other VIPs are instructed to use E5.

    I add 1/3 E85 to our standard E10, because it is much cheaper (1.059€/litre) than E10 (1.659€/litre) or E5 (1.699€/litre). The more Ethanol, the more energy for your money.
    But my carbureted scoot doesn't like to start with "E35" when air and engine is cold. During freezing temperatures I must use E10.
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  11. CaseyJones

    CaseyJones Ridin' that train

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    The more VOLUME for your money.

    The energy released when burning ethanol is much lower than when burning petrol. In the States, testers have reported that using E85 drops their fuel mileage by nearly a third, wiping out savings on purchasing the (subsidized) product.

    And that's only one problem. Ethanol soaks up water vapor from the air, and holds it in the fuel mix, through the combustion cycle. That exposes the innards of the carburetor or fuel-injection system, the lines, the tank, to corrosion.

    And as you've found, it makes starting harder.
    #11
  12. alicethomas

    alicethomas Been here awhile

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    More volume too.
    E85 has about 22.7 MJ / litre, our ethanol-free premium fuel 30 MJ / litre.
    With 1 litre E85 at 1.059€, the "fair" price for ethanol-free gas is 1.40€. But no chance! We pay 1.70€ and more.
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  13. CaseyJones

    CaseyJones Ridin' that train

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    http://www.hho4free.com/gasoline_vs_ethanol.htm

    "One US gallon of gasoline contains 114,000 BTU of energy; depending on the time of year, and depending on what is in the gasoline. It is getting harder to find gasoline's that does not contain 5 to 10% of Ethanol. Ethanol is ethyl alcohol; the kind of alcohol in beverages; beer, whiskey, bourbon, vodka, cocktails, etc.. It takes one and a half US gallons of ethanol to equal the energy in one US gallon of gasoline; the reason... because ethanol only has 76,100 BTU's of energy per gallon. Less energy means less miles per gallon.
    "
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  14. caponerd

    caponerd Kickstart Enthusiast

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    Look at the cooling fins on the methanol burning "speedway" engines made by Jawa and J.A.P.

    No, that's not a liquid cooled engine with "fake" cooling fins.
    That's all the fins you need when running pure alchohol fuel.
    [​IMG]
    #14
  15. caponerd

    caponerd Kickstart Enthusiast

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    The corn they use for ethanol would only be used for cattle feed or high fructose corn syrup.
    Neither of which are very efficient uses of corn either. If they use it to make ethanol instead, it's no skin off our backs. (as long as we can still get ethanol free fuel somewhere)
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  16. Jonniedee

    Jonniedee Been here awhile

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    Ethanol destroyed my Ducati's gas tank :cry
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  17. oldxr

    oldxr Long timer

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    I replaced the float needle and seat in my friends yamaha yz426 carburator.The float bowl was flooding.He rode the bike 1 time and parked for 4 months.Then he pulls the bike out and uses it again and its flooding again.I get the usual bitch cell call and tell him to bring the bike back to my house.After removing the carb and float bowl I find the float needle stuck .I removed the float needle and found that the crap ethanol gas had attacked the new float needle .Some corrosion had formed on it making it stick in the seat.The needle and seat were a real yamaha oem parts.I hate this crap gas.In california its %10 on all gas.Time to use fuel stabilizer-or av gas
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  18. alicethomas

    alicethomas Been here awhile

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    That's nearly what I said. Of course E85 is 85% Ethanol und 15% fossil fuel, E85 has slightly more energy/litre than E100.

    We know Ethanol fuel since 19th century. We have no oil-wells, we used to make our fuel from potatoes and/or coal, until fossil fuel became cheap as water. Ethanol fuel is a little bit different from fossil fuel, but manageable.

    Government has decided to become independent from fossil fuel and oil wars. If we don't use enough Ethanol fuel in comparison to fossil fuel, we (the common people) will be fined with about 400 million &#8364; / year.
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  19. CaseyJones

    CaseyJones Ridin' that train

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    Sure. How does using petrol to grow crops to generate ethanol, which then rots your vehicles from inside the fuel system...using as much petrol to harvest and process those crops as would otherwise just be burned on the open market...how does THAT reduce oil usage?

    Ethanol is a political artificially-constructed answer to a non-existent problem. And in using it we replace imaginary problems with real ones.
    #19
  20. alicethomas

    alicethomas Been here awhile

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    I'm not in the political or scientific position to judge about that. Rising Ethanol-% (or in general use of regenerative energy) is the law, that's I need to know.:deal
    But imho:
    Oil war 1 (Iraq) was quite expensive. Material and immaterial.
    Oil war n+1 (Iran) will be much more expensive! :eek1
    #20