Ethanol Free Baby!

Discussion in 'Battle Scooters' started by elite1, Apr 17, 2012.

  1. baloneyskin daddy

    baloneyskin daddy bikaholic

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    Pretty certain they're honest Injuns on the gas. Its a largly, or at one time was, farming area where a lot of the farmers were complaining about the eth ruining the older equipment. The station owners went to great lengths to find out 1st if they could legally sell non-eth and then found a supplier. I also fully understand the science aspect to the mileage it just doesnt change the fact that my mileage stays pretty consistant.
    #41
  2. topless

    topless Been here awhile

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    I've worked around refineries and ethanol plants for over 20 years. I've watched the EPA stick their noses in places that it shouldn't ever have gone, and regulations from other Federal agencies that make no sense at all. Part of the problem the U.S. has is you get people making regulations that have zero practical experience and an ideology that is contrary to everything we do.
    Go back to the early 70's, when the Feds outlawed tetra-ethyl lead, they replaced it with MTBE. MTBE was so nasty, every single piece of fuel handling equipment had to replace their rubber seals with either telfon or a rubber call Kalrez. Finally after 20 years, these bureaucrats (actually the next generation of brain dead Federal employees) figured out the MTBE was a terrible chemical and caused all kinds of problems; cancer, ground water pollution, etc. They should have gone to ethanol then, but guess who was making the MTBE? If you guessed the chemical divisions of oil companies you'd be right. Oil companies paid good money for the privilege of making their own required fuel additive.
    Don't buy into the bs that ethanol takes food away from people. That's not even close to being true. Yes, most ethanol is currently being made from corn, but the corn doesn't disappear when the ethanol is removed from it. The processed corn is then made into animal feed. There are millions of acres of farmland that the Feds pay the farmers, NOT to farm. There are other crops that can be used to make ethanol, basically any plant that has starch in it. They are working on new ethanol plants that use wheat straw and switch grass, all types of plant material to make the ethanol from. The difference is it takes a lot more of these materials to make the same volume of ethanol.
    If ethanol had been used 40 years ago, the learning curve of which rubbers to use and clearances for fuel pumps, etc would not be an issue.
    So, thank your fat cat politicians and government bureaucrats for all the problems, most of them are enjoying retirement or dead.
    E85 is a great race car fuel, especially for boosted motors. It has an octane rating of 100-105 and can replace $10/gal race gas.
    #42
  3. CaseyJones

    CaseyJones Ridin' that train

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_gallon_equivalent

    GGE - Gasoline Gallon Equivalent (US Gallons) tables

    GGE Calculated for Gasoline in US Gallons at 114,000 BTU per Gallon

    <table class="wikitable sortable jquery-tablesorter"><thead><tr><th title="Sort ascending" class="headerSort">Fuel - Liquid, US Gallons</th> <th title="Sort ascending" class="headerSort">GGE</th> <th title="Sort ascending" class="headerSort">GGE %</th> <th title="Sort ascending" class="headerSort">BTU/Gal</th> <th title="Sort ascending" class="headerSort">kWh/Gal</th> </tr></thead><tbody> <tr> <td>Gasoline (base)<sup id="cite_ref-epa_1-0" class="reference">[2]</sup></td> <td align="right">1.0000</td> <td align="right">100.00%</td> <td align="right">114,000</td> <td align="right">33.41</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Gasoline (conventional, summer)<sup id="cite_ref-epa_1-1" class="reference">[2]</sup></td> <td align="right">0.9960</td> <td align="right">100.40%</td> <td align="right">114,500</td> <td align="right">33.56</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Gasoline (conventional, winter)<sup id="cite_ref-epa_1-2" class="reference">[2]</sup></td> <td align="right">1.0130</td> <td align="right">98.72%</td> <td align="right">112,500</td> <td align="right">32.97</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Gasoline (reformulated gasoline, ethanol)<sup id="cite_ref-epa_1-3" class="reference">[2]</sup></td> <td align="right">1.0190</td> <td align="right">98.14%</td> <td align="right">111,836</td> <td align="right">32.78</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Gasoline (reformulated gasoline, ETBE)<sup id="cite_ref-epa_1-4" class="reference">[2]</sup></td> <td align="right">1.0190</td> <td align="right">98.14%</td> <td align="right">111,811</td> <td align="right">32.77</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Gasoline (reformulated gasoline, MTBE)<sup id="cite_ref-epa_1-5" class="reference">[2]</sup></td> <td align="right">1.0200</td> <td align="right">98.04%</td> <td align="right">111,745</td> <td align="right">32.75</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Gasoline (10% MBTE)<sup id="cite_ref-nafa_2-0" class="reference">[3]</sup></td> <td align="right">1.0200</td> <td align="right">98.04%</td> <td align="right">112,000</td> <td align="right">32.83</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Gasoline (regular unleaded)<sup id="cite_ref-about_3-0" class="reference">[4]</sup></td> <td align="right">1.0000</td> <td align="right">100.00%</td> <td align="right">114,100</td> <td align="right">33.44</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Diesel #2<sup id="cite_ref-about_3-1" class="reference">[4]</sup></td> <td align="right">0.8800</td> <td align="right">113.64%</td> <td align="right">129,500</td> <td align="right">37.95</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Biodiesel (B100)<sup id="cite_ref-about_3-2" class="reference">[4]</sup></td> <td align="right">0.9600</td> <td align="right">104.17%</td> <td align="right">118,300</td> <td align="right">34.80</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Bio Diesel (B20)<sup id="cite_ref-about_3-3" class="reference">[4]</sup></td> <td align="right">0.9000</td> <td align="right">111.11%</td> <td align="right">127,250</td> <td align="right">37.12</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Liquid natural gas (LNG)<sup id="cite_ref-about_3-4" class="reference">[4]</sup></td> <td align="right">1.5362</td> <td align="right">65.10%</td> <td align="right">75,000</td> <td align="right">21.75</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Liquefied petroleum gas (propane) (LPG)<sup id="cite_ref-about_3-5" class="reference">[4]</sup></td> <td align="right">1.3500</td> <td align="right">74.04%</td> <td align="right">84,300</td> <td align="right">24.75</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Methanol fuel (M100)<sup id="cite_ref-about_3-6" class="reference">[4]</sup></td> <td align="right">2.0100</td> <td align="right">49.75%</td> <td align="right">56,800</td> <td align="right">16.62</td></tr></tbody></table>

    Please note the amount of ethanol and methanol needed to provide the equivalent energy to one gallon of gasoline. I happen to believe the E10 energy mixture energy is overstated; but I'm not a petroleum engineer and cannot prove it.

    Some of the poorer-mileage figures in some vehicles, including my BMW cycle, have to do with closed-loop computer-controlled fuel-injection systems with sensors in the exhaust. Ethanol apparently messes that up; mileage on my cycle would drop from 48 to 42 on a tank of rotgut.
    #43
  4. ABritOnMaui

    ABritOnMaui Been here awhile

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    Personally I don't mind to concept of regulation, however, I agree entirely with you. The way it is practised is terrible. Politicians setting policy in areas they don't have a clue about and often are in the pocket of some company or individual, it's disgusting. (oh and it is not limited to just the USA, this isn't an anti usa rant :), happens everywhere).


    Re the indian reservation gas, would it not be better to keep buying it and add octane booster to stop the knocking? Just curious?
    #44
  5. Tripped1

    Tripped1 Likely Lost.

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    That is also the reason that you can't get pure ethanol, cold it doesn't have enough ass to start most low compression motors.

    Ethanol is great when you are running exotic forced induction rigs that the spools alone and capable of heating the intake charge to the point that you start cracking pistons, the cooler burn is a good thing.

    ..and yeah I have a flex-fuel F-150, I ran exactly one tank of E86 through it, the range went from 365miles a tank to 190 miles to a tank.

    The dollar off the price doesn't make up for the lack of efficiency.
    #45
  6. topless

    topless Been here awhile

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    There is no argument that ethanol does not contain as much energy as gasoline. The history of gasoline is that it was a waste product of the petroleum industry, and burning it as fuel was the easy way to get rid of it. Diesel engines were not invented to run on petroleum, it was developed to run on vegetable oil.
    Back in the 40's guys that worked on pipelines would drain off raw gasoline (the pipelines had places to collect it) and run it in their cars on weekends racing. But, because it had no lead to protect the valve seats, so they spent Sunday night doing a valve job. Guys who told me about that said it was like putting a supercharger on the engine.
    When we converted cars to run E85 instead of race gas, it took 30% more gallons to run properly, but it made more power because of the cooler intake charge on boosted motors. You have to have the 15% gasoline in it to get a cold engine to fire. I know guys that put a 1 gallon fuel cell filled with gasoline, and use it just to start the motor before switching over to E85.
    As time goes on, you will find it harder and harder to find gasoline without ethanol. Besides, gasoline of today is less petroleum than gas of 30 years ago. You can boost the octane in your fuel by adding toluene. Of course buying toluene has gotten tricky because some idiot figured out that it is a good additive to meth, so buying it in any quantity requires showing a photo I.D. and filling out DEA paperwork.
    The future of gasoline engines lies in the engine controls. The latest power increase comes from direct injection. Where the gas is injected directly into the cylinder. The downside is the fuel pumps must run a lot higher pressure, but that's how they are making motors like the new Ford 5.0 make over 400hp on pump gas without a power adder.
    #46