Eugene / Springfield Meet-ups

Discussion in 'Pacific Northwet - Where it's green. And wet.' started by G-Funk, Dec 2, 2008.

  1. peterman

    peterman cop magnet

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    candlepower as you suggest, was = is a measurable factor I bleev, sight distance on a clear night,or some such,, I don't know.
    but lumens and candlepower must therefore have some measurable connection I would guess,,maybe not.
    BRIGHT AS FUCK! is a pretty good measure!
    If you can burn the paint off the car ahead of you,your lights are just bright enough!:lol3
  2. Dansrc51

    Dansrc51 I need a cape....

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    Didn't they predict the end of the world soon? I thought the Inca's said we'd all be dead in two weeks, so all this talk about light power.... :norton








    actually, that was a great anology OMB. :lol3
  3. peterman

    peterman cop magnet

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  4. RideAbout

    RideAbout Mentally Retired

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    After Da' Pad, we went and played at Timmie's house for a bit. That 47watt (4 bazallion lumen) lamp attached to my KLR made the "lumens" from my stock headlight insignificant. The drawback (pun intended) was, with the weak KLR charging system, is that it drew 3.1 amps at idle.... 2.8 once the revs built and the alt kicked in. The smaller square 10 watter only drew .9 amps and was about half as bright by my seat of the pants dyno. :huh

    .... anyho.... nice lights, gunna spoon a few on the 4x4 and maybe some of the smaller ones for a bike in the future. :wink:
  5. Czechplease

    Czechplease uncategorizeable

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    Well....in 'light' of that info.....

    I may decide to switch the rounds for the little square ones. Or...if Ryan will make the already sweet deal sweeter enough...I'll keep the rounds and put 'em on my Jeep and buy two of the squares for the Klr :wink:
  6. Motomuffin

    Motomuffin CSMC

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    I think I'm gonna call Tim T-Waffle from now on
  7. E30Newbie

    E30Newbie flying squirl

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    Good info here. A few things to note. The square lights we tested were rated for 16 watts, not 10. The 10's will be here this next week. Depending on the age of the battery and which bike the lights goes on will be a large deciding factor on how many actual amps the LED's will draw. With a good strong battery and a larger stater the lights will draw less amps. So while this info is accurate, it is only accurate for this particular application. Things will differ a bit from bike to bike.


    We can do anything you want Mandango! I don't want to stick anyone with something they don't want. Pricing will remain the same unless more people go in on a group buy for a case, my margin is already dismal at best. I have 2 more sets of the 16 watt squares in stock, the rest are gone. I have coming in 2 sets each of the 10 watt single and 4 led units measuring 66x66mm each. 1 set of each are spoken for so I will have an extra set of each should you decide to go that route. Just let me know, I want to make you happy.


    Lets talk watts vs amps.

    I did some research on the larger "42" watt units and have a few answers. Each LED has a wattage rating (3). My supplier is taking the total # of LED x Watts per led = output. This had quite the discussion going. Ohms law can not be overridden so the math was easy. However what I did not include was these lights are stable at 24 volts. So after a little math the "42" watt unit with perfect power will bee considered a 38 watts unit at 1.601 amps. FWIW, this means nothing to us unless we are going to haul our bikes in a school bus with these lights on it.

    I really enjoyed the discussion last Wednesday. Anytime my brain hurts when leaving a bar is a good night :lol3.

    If anyone needs anything or has any question please let me know. I will check the forum and always have my cell on.

    -Ryan -541-513-8940
  8. tblume

    tblume Long timer

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    Do it!
  9. linkweewee

    linkweewee tantum quantum

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    For any of you who've ever been to the Outpost and met Del's neighbor Kenny and his dog Jasper:

    Unfortunately Jasper had passed on as he may have gotten salmon poisoning from one in the creek.

    Damn :cry
  10. YamaGeek

    YamaGeek Ancient trailbike padwan

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    Yamageek responds..:evil

    Um yeah, Lumens are the new candlepower. But, there are other things to consider.. Most newer bikes have specifically shaped and positioned headlight reflectors/bulb holders, designed to use a two filament ( hi-low beams ) replaceable bulbs. Long gone, ( I b-leev ) are the old sealed beam 6 volt units of the old Enduros of the 70's. One of the nice things about my old Yammy is it's 12volt system which uses a fairly common 15/20/25 watt incandescent dual filament bulb which most small newer bikes and scoots still use.

    The problem comes with conversion to HID's or Metal Vapor Halide's, the really bright, purplish tinted road scorchers that require a voltage converter/ballast. If your bike you can use the H4 type headlight Halogen incandescent, there are some conversions to H.I.D. type bulbs. This needs to be powered off of ONLY 12volt systems.

    LEDs are really another, far different technology, and for car and bike headlights they still are evolving. The problem with LED's is they demand a very controlled voltage and amperage for decent life, otherwise they will not work with some bikes that use an alternating voltage/current magneto driven headlight, like my bike uses. I do have an parallel excess current sink/voltage regulator that keeps the AC volts at 12 volts but it's the peak voltage transients in an AC system that would eventually kill any cheap DIY LED installation plus the fact that you would have to rectify, filter and regulate the AC to 12 DC volts for most of these aftermarket made cheapish LED headlights. LED stands for Light Emitting Diode, and because they are semiconductor devices they will wear out/ burn out with too much voltage and current.

    The form factor for the headlights of past and present bikes can vary widely enough to make retrofitting these newer technologies to the older reflectors a money pit, which will overheat, melt the reflector, burn the bulbs out rapidly, get you tickets for having far too much glare from your headlights. The system has to put the light to the road in a way that doesn't piss off the cops, conforms to DOT standards, and allows you to have low and high beams..:deal

    Frankly for a few dollars more I buy the halogen incandescent 20 watt bulbs for my bike. I've ridden home from a few Wetfests, in the dark, using this headlight. I occasionally have people flash their high beams at me so I guessing my high beam is fairly bright. I've looked into retro fitting newer tech to this headlight, it's far too much trouble. If you have a bike with an AC output to headlight, don't have a lot of money to burn or it's an older bike with an odd headlight it's probably better with halogen incandescent.

    Yeah I'm probably :205on this..:lol3
  11. oldmonkeybut

    oldmonkeybut Digital Emigrant

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    Hi Yamageek.....

    There is a lot of truth to what you speak. The retrofitting of headlight components with brighter and more modern technology can rapidly spiral into a pile of melted parts. Not to mention a large hole in your wallet and general dissatisfaction. I have seen a few HID conversions that worked pretty well but they were not cheap.

    This thread was generated from a search for supplemental lighting to be used in conjunction with an existing headlight. The quest is to provide increased conspicuity along with advanced venison warning. The problem is finding something bright enough to be useful, small enough to remain light and be mounted out of the way. All the while not consuming more energy than the system produces. Price is also a major concern as we wouldn't want to alienate the KLR brethren. Finding "Clean" power is a huge concern on older bikes and the Dirt Bike based conversions as you stated. Most modern Dualsports with Electric Start have large enough storage batteries and high enough tech regulation/rectification to buffer out fluctuations in the power supply. LED's are new enough technology to generate some "black art" thoughts at our level. The low Ampere requirement makes them attractive since we would still be able to run the heated gear, electronic navigation, digital entertainment systems, communication systems, coffee makers, hair driers, curling irons and electronic vibratory massage devices that we find necessary for our existence as a society. The question is thusly brought forth....How bright is it compared to the 1000watt halogen that we're used to....where can we find the video "The Lumen and You" so all this information can be brought out into the light?


    I'm no Engineer...I've never even been inside of a Locomotive
  12. YamaGeek

    YamaGeek Ancient trailbike padwan

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    Yeah thought I'd just muddy the water a bit, you want to read some funny shit get onto one of those LED forum's subforums for DIY car lighting...:lol3
  13. E30Newbie

    E30Newbie flying squirl

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    *Breaks out thesaurus*
  14. Zuber

    Zuber Zoob

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    Be aware of different charging systems.

    One is the true regulated alternator, like the twin BMW's. This system only generates the current required at the time needed. They are more complicated and usually need brushes that wear down.

    Two is the generator type found on most single cyl bikes. It generates at 100% and the 'regulator' shunts off the excess to ground (look up how a Ziener Diode works). If you reduce the amount of current required to run the system, then more current will be 'wasted' to ground. This means the regulator part may get hotter and fail more often. This is very common with the old 4-cylinder Suzuki's. So, going to low watt headlights will not save any energy and may actually shorten the life of components. Most of these systems only puts out 80-120 watts. It seems that mfg's design it to consume half of the total output.
  15. oldmonkeybut

    oldmonkeybut Digital Emigrant

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    Good info Zoob. Figuring output at 80-120 watts. Normal consumption at 40-60 watts leaves 40-60 watts of excess power. Take 10% away for a safety cushion and you have 36-54 watts left over to power any additional load. Using Ohm's Law you can determine the available Amperage. As long as you don't exceed your available Amperage limit you can run whatever you want without problems. Don't forget Connections, Relays, Switches and lengths of Wire are not "Free". All of those will consume a portion of your available Amperage due to their inherent Resistance. Ohm's Law is a lot like Newtons Law of Gravity...those are laws you can't break.
  16. linkweewee

    linkweewee tantum quantum

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  17. YamaGeek

    YamaGeek Ancient trailbike padwan

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    Actooally, a lot of motorbikes use a shunt to ground charging regulator, if the regulator is in-cased in a large, aluminum-ish, heavily finned case, it's a good bet it's a shunt to ground voltage regulator.

    BTW you should never, ever use a running car to jump start a bike with this system, it will, with certain alacrity, burn out the poor regulator as it tries to get rid of over 14.2 volts worth of over-cuurent. This can amount to over 200 watts in some cases. Best to use a car with a good charged battery that's not running.

    More LED redux: Most people when they think of LED's, think of the little 3 to 8 MM plastic encased LED's found at Radio Shack, and in cheap flashlights. These by and large are mostly intended as indicator lamps and certain low power light displays, Christmas lights, etc. and most consume about .025 to .15 amps at whatever their 'forward' voltage is rated at. Most white LED's, which we are using as road lighting, have a forward voltage of about 4.0~4.2 volts maximum. The thing about the smaller LED's is that when they're running, their making heat, but it's inconsequential enough that the anode and cathode leads and the plastic case itself can easily dissipate it. The problem that commes with newer Cree and other hi-power LED's is that they end up generating quite a bit of heat, heat that does need to be gotten rid of, and because of where they make this heat also makes for problems when retrofitting to standard headlight fixtures. They also release this heat in an odd place, usually through the power leads or the Anode's base to the leads in the bulb's 'behind' region.

    LED's are not like HID's or Incandescent bulbs where the light come's out of the element in a near spherical radiation They are actually more closer to LASER light because the light is emitted roughly uni-directional with little divergence, maybe 30~70 degrees at most. The reason for the plastic dome shapes they're often encased in is to provide a little bit of extra divergence. High power LED's all come with demanding requirements that they be affixed to some sort of heat conducting surface, one that easily carries away the heat, but doesn't cause a short circuit of the power leads that often need to pass through the cooling surface. I'm betting these 10 watt units you folks are using have some sort of heavy aluminum casing or some sort of 'heatsink' that carries away the excess heat. I'd be suprised if they didn't, because even though LED's are pretty efficient compared to incadescent, their requirement to get rid of the heat they generate when matching or surpassing incadescent lighting makes them much more of a problem to design for, and the technology used is much more expensive.

    And because this flood of light normally comes out in a roughly narrowish conical shape, getting the beam shaped to fit the road, light the foreground and distance with an even spread and also not etch the retinas of those drivers passing you on a darkened road, becomes an even bigger headache to design for. At least with the present state of LED 'bulb' headlight design. Add the need to have an integral voltage/current regulator to compensate for the voltage swings of a bike's charging system, lotsa heat in the 'backside' of the enclosure, a properly designed system gets to be expensive fast. I'm not sure if most of these LED off road lights would pass DOT muster for glare reduction and proper road lighting.

    Yeah class dismissed....:evil
  18. tblume

    tblume Long timer

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    We're talking about rigid (un)brand(ed) auxiliary stuff here, fwiw...
  19. Superpacman13

    Superpacman13 Been here awhile

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    In other news, I am almost free from the tyranny of Ramsey! I put my notice in on Thursday and have felt no regret since then, so I will assume it is the right decision. :freaky
  20. Czechplease

    Czechplease uncategorizeable

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    It's the "right decision" as long as it frees you up to swap out the two raising link bolts on the Klr some evening. :D
    -fwiw...me and another mechanically-challenged dude installed the links in about 20mins a while back (so this job'd be quick) but his socket set was way past worn and the extra socket 'clearance' allowed a 'spinning' which buggered the bolt heads and knowing they're down there all torn up is bugging me so I've already got the replacement bolts. Now he's out of his place with a garage, and while I was actually able to get in an oil change at 7am...lying on the gravel driveway in between cloud bursts the other morning...I'd really rather impose on you (and your heated, dry garage) again if it's not too much trouble. This 'bike with no garage' thing is the SUCK!

    and...you still haven't named your fee for the crash bar install so decide or I'll come up with some tacky-as-hell...and likely highly inappropriate token of my appreciation!

    E30Newbie....guess you got jammed up at 5 Friday for the light handoff...no worries. I will however advise that I'm wanting to trade 'down' to the 9LED's since by the power calculation talk....I'm guessing I'll be well within the safety zone for the Klr's charging system with those. The 14LED's I have now...as we discussed...I'm not so sure of.
    (throw me a $20 and keep the remaining $19 for a 'restocking fee' if that works for you)

    (man....it really IS 'all about me')
    Edited to Add- so as to dispell the above line....I meant to throw this out last Wednesday but I got so caught up in the light buying...and the 'special moment' with someone in the parking lot....that I forgot to mention it. Anywho...I'm mechanically(and arguably otherwise) retarded so I can't offer any of you swell fella's help that way but..I'd like to say that if you ever get broke down 'out in the sticks' and me and my Jeep and trailer can get to you...just call...24/7 and I'll move heaven and earth to respond and haul you and your scooter back out to civilization. I realize most of you are savvy and prepared enough for almost anything, but in the event the bike won't roll and a tow truck won't come out that far and you'd rather not leave the bike overnight...or whatever...just call. PM me or ask me Wednesday for my cell if you're interested....FWIW.