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Discussion in 'Shiny Things' started by CodyY, Sep 17, 2012.
Good to know. I'll keep my eye out on the next kit.
Since I got an offer I couldn't refuse on my AR I built another one. This is the ptac kit available at PSA. Put a cheap red dot I had laying around. Not bad for a $560 AR including lower receiver, shipping and ffl transfer. Kit seems to be good quality. Will report back after a trip to the range.
Bushmaster "Carbon" on sale at LGS- $700
Anyone own/shot/fondled a "carbon" unit
FWIW, Never owned an AR style, but thinkin....
Personally I would pass on the carbon. Feels like a toy and has a pathetic trigger.
I did some google searches that would agree with you
I picked up some lowers last December, and I have two left that are sequential serial numbers.
I decided I'm going to build two identical rifles. Not sure why, but I think it will be fun.
So far I have the two lowers, two lower parts kits and the two stocks came in today:
Buffer tubes, castle nuts, buffer springs and buffers should be in by Monday.
This may take a while as I have 4 builds going currently. Hopefully I have these two done before the end of the year and my other two done by spring time.
I've been thinking of building two sequential ARs. One with a 16" barrel, the other with a 18 or 20 inch bull barrel,.
Not black or tacticool...
Great rifles - my concern was always loss of velocity from that length barrel. Very cool though.
I'm hoping to add a nordic +2 to it soon.
Maybe a barrel/tube clamp with a light rail, but I'm not sure that'll be worth it yet.
Could you at least find a 'Sharpie' and blacken those heat shiel bolts?
Just super cool!!!
Fun, interesting rifle - and you're not going to see twenty others when you go to the range. Rare and spendy now, but cool.
It did come with some black parkerized kind, but they were of terrible quality.
One of the nuts stripped out completely just going finger tight.
The shield itself seems decent though, minimal fitting required.
Semi auto 12ga goodness
What is the general feeling of the Steyr AUG vs. the IWI Tavor? Reliability? Accuracy? Is the MEPRO reflex sight any good?
Don't have any experience with either.
But based on the reviews I've read/seen in the last year or so. I think there will be a much bigger aftermarket for the tavor and it has other things that most other bullpups lack in various fields. I.E. bolt release, etc.
Meprolite is good tuff stuff.I prefer a more open site plain,but very good optics.The Israile's been using them on CAR's and Gali's for years,,years.
I don't think you can go wrong eitherway.I will say,,,ive owned AUG's,,and it will be easyer to find a Tavor set up for AR15 mags,,which are a lot cheaper then AUG mags.And a lot easyer to find,,trust me.AUG mags can get pricey if you can find them.AUG did convert rifles to AR15 mags,but there far and few.
Just my two cents good luck.
P.S.I do think the AUG points little better then the Tavor.Better balanced design,,,for me.Might point different from person to person.But really nose light for me.
Hey John, I'll weigh in here, since my Dad and I both bought Tavors earlier this year when they came to the US market:
My dad has the Mepro, but I run an adjustable low power illuminated scope since I compete every now and then (AASA, not 3 gun). My initial thought when it came in after waiting nearly 5 months was that it was a lot more solid in feel than other bullpups I had messed with, to include the Steyr, and the FN marshmallow gun. It just feels rugged. Which surprised me, given that the body is entirely plastic. But nothing about it feels flimsy. You can tell it is a REAL battle rifle. It is comfortable to hold and shoulder. It is heavier than an AR, but you don't notice it because the balance point is behind the pistol grip. The Israeli 6 point grip feels very unnatural at first, especially to AR users like myself. But you get used to it, and it really is the best way to run the rifle. The flattop rail is nice, and I like how the irons are integrated. But certain optic setups (mine) will not permit you to deploy the backup irons with the optic mounted. Whatever.
Reliability: I buy and shoot steel cased ammo. Lecture me if you want, but I refuse to pay extra for brass cased. Steel DOES NOT hurt your extractor. I promise. That being said, there are rifles that cannot reliably cycle the Russian stuff. I do not buy such rifles. The Tavor is no exception. Mine had a break in period. About 30 rounds...Where I had a few FTEs. I was disappointed to say the least, given that my other .223 rifle that I currently own, a Sig 516, has never choked. I will compare my Tavor to it throughout this writeup, as I consider it to be the benchmark for tactical .223 semis. That thing is a tank. After I made it (somewhat painfully) through the first 30, everything was okay. And yes, I checked to make sure the mag was properly seated, and yes, I tried 3 different types of mags (IWI, PMAG Gen 2, USGI). No problems since. I have done mag dumps with Wolf ammo, and no malfunctions. So I believe it is reliable. Other sources have reported 100% reliability, my father included. I sadly, cannot. MAC has thousands of rounds through his and no issues. Granted, I have not had the opportunity to put it through the same test I put the Sig through, but I think it would do okay. When I got the Sig, I put 3,000 rounds of wolf through it without cleaning it once. It never malfunctioned. I once dumped 120 rounds as fast as I could. Nothing. I wanted to see if it lived up to all the hype Sig gave it. I never threw it in mud, but near as I could tell, it lived up to the hype.
Accuracy: Bottom line, less accurate than an AR. But still good! 2 inches at 100 is totally doable. Sub MOA? Probably not. Part of this is the trigger. Stock trigger is about 11 lbs. I took the return spring out of mine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dizuRNL0HIs
Got it down to 8ish. Very acceptable. I don't really think the stock trigger is even that bad. It is heavy, but it is clean so you don't notice it. I don't mind the trigger, but YMMV.
Other stuff...I like the feel of the rifle. The controls make sense, and I have gotten to the point where I can change mags just as quickly as on an AR. The bolt release (equivalent of the ping pong paddle on an AR) is right behind the magwell which is awesome. As you insert the mag and it seats, just tap it with your thumb and the bolt releases and you are in business...And because of how easy it is to shoulder with one hand, you could stay on target the whole time. It takes some getting used to, but overall the ergonomics on this thing are outstanding...and I have an academic background in Human Factors, so ergonomics is something that I know a thing or two about.
The rifle is insanely easy to field strip. Punch one pin, the butt plate pivots down and everything slides out the back in one piece! Awesome! The guts look like an odd combo between AK and AR, but are a unique operating system.
It's amazing how small the rifle is. Both my Tavor and Sig have 16.5" barrels. Here's a picture:
The Sig AR feels like a damned Kentucky long rifle compared to the Tavor. It's unreal. It's smaller than a Steyr.
One other cool thing. On the barrel, it is stamped clearly: "Made in Israel." I think that's pretty cool.
-Trigger pull for some. Like I said, it doesn't bother me because I shoot some Soviet weapons. AR purists will not like it.
-Lack of aftermarket parts, although that will come with time. Tavors are selling quite well so I imagine the aftermarket parts will start coming out pretty soon.
-Lack of rail space. Not a problem for me, I don't like bolting tons of stuff to my guns, I even took my side rail off. But if you're the kind of person who needs 2 lights, a laser, and a vertical grip you may be frustrated by this. However, there is an aftermarket rail handguard that replaces the factory grip. That'll buy you some real estate.
-Not as accurate as an AR. I'm kinda nit-picking here, because accuracy is good, but the AR is the American standard, and we have to judge it against that.
-Price. About 2K. I got mine for 1800 because I preordered it before they started really flying off the shelves. Supply and demand is at work and the prices rose a bit.
I love my Hebrew Hammer. I'll be hanging onto mine. However, I am keeping my AR. I don't think the Tavor necessarily has any more utility than an AR. In fact I think it has less. The only exception to that would be home defense, or any other place where it's small size grants it an advantage. If you want a bullpup for the size, this is the one to buy. It rocks. Long term, I'll probably put a surefire can on it and use it as a piggy popper, because adding a can won't make it ridiculously long. If anyone has any questions about it just ask.
My dad has the Mepro and it seems solid, but the reticle tends to get washed out around sunset. Other than that it is a nice piece.