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Discussion in 'GS Boxers' started by CarbonCat, Apr 8, 2006.
1) I must have missed where BMW boasted of their high-tech anti-theft system.
2) I didn't mention George Bush. Did he have something to do with the mandate?
I believe in market forces. If BMW wants to make an anti-theft system, they have been allowed to since day one. They can then either reap the rewards of providing something people want or take their lumps if nobody cares or if it doesn't work. If however, the government says, "thou shalt" and BMW follows orders, shouldn't the government bear some portion of the responsibility?
First, the 4% number is just completely irrelevant--it is the number of posts in this thread that include reports of specific EWS failures. The only thing it indicates is that only 4% of the posts in this thread include hard data (this post not included, obviously!). The main thing is to prevent people from getting the idea that there is a 4% failure rate.
Second, I didn't say the number was 0.13%, but I think if you could make halfway accurate estimates for the variables (rather than guess as I did) you could come up with a failure rate that might not be off by an order of magnitude. For instance, I would think that US sales figures for the GS would be available somewhere, in some trade publication or something. In the last few pages on this thread I've seen 11% and 4% thrown around, but those numbers seem very very high (and as described above, the 4% number is just irrelevant to the issue of failure rates).
Third, while we'll never have perfect data, I think it would be interesting to make some estimates and come up with a range of failure possible failure rates. Call it an educated guess or whatever, but I think it beats PURE speculation.
Fourth, you're right that the biggest question is how many people would post about this issue? My guess is that most people who had recently spent $20k on a bike, and the bike wouldn't start and had "EWS"flashing on the screen, would probably do some internet research. Google "BMW R1200GS EWS" and this thread is the second result. Who knows for sure, but I'd be surprised if at least half the people in the US with these failures don't post here.
Please post links to the federal laws that mandate this system.
Sorry for the confusion.
I have never, ever meant to indicate that the ring antenna has 4% failure rate. Didn't say so, didn't mean to say so, and if it is true it would be a super-human coinsidence.
It is, however, of great value for me as a reader to know that a 1.100 post thread does not at all indicate 1.100 failures. When I started I expected to find hundreds of failures reported. That it is "only" 46 is interesting. Also that quite a few of those are not from inmates here, but someone who registrerd with the sole purpose of claiming a failure.
My profession is computer science, and I enjoy to have documented (yet another) case of what we can call Internet Magnifier (IM).
The IM has two properties: If you are interested in X, however small and marginal X is, with the IM you can find enough fellow travellers to enrich your life. Second, if you have a problem X, however small, IM will make it into a 1.100 post thread (to make up an non-existing example!)
Notice, with great care, that I didn't say ring antenna failure is less than a disaster if it hits you, I didn't say it is unimportant, and I didn't day I find it apalling that BMW hasn't solved it yet. I just say that it might be as big as a 1.100 post thread might indicate on face value. This thread is simply not full of reports of failures.
I am sorry if you worked yourself up and destroyed an otherwise fine efternoon, I am sorry if my summary of the posts provoked you in any way. And I am sorry if you want this thread to stand as a proof of horribly bad engineering that has left millions of riders stranded. I don't think there is proof of that here.
While all of you were writing I have cooked a 'coniglio' (rabbit?) in white wine (Vernaccia di San Gimignano) with some 'sedano' (?) and carrot. To this I am serving a very light and fruity Chianti. Sorry again if the summary provoked you, but now I am off to enjoy dinner with Capa della Famiglia.
I'll summarize again in another 1.000 posts
(you can, if you want, read this post as a statement about my interest in the EWS failure as a phenonomen Per Se rather as a technical issue)
You didn't say so, I agree; just trying to see how we can use your useful info. The EWS problems don't seem very common, but even so they are too common, if you ask me.
Have a great dinner!
"sedano" = celery, in English.
That's ninny state - europ is the nanny state
The caniglio was excellent, and now one good thing might lead to another....but I must take two minutes to add one more thing:
My 4% signal/noise ratio is highy unfair!
It fails to point out that a lot (and I really mean a lot!) of useful information can be found in this thread. I have copied a fair amount into the GSpot FAQ (which, obviously, is proof-carrying code). But I was surprised to only find 46 failures (of which, again, 7 weren't from "inmates").
So in addition to being sorry for provoked my fellow travellers unnecessary, I am sorry if you have contributed with your technical skill to shed light on this problem, only to find me calling it noise.
Sigh. next year (when we reach 2.000 posts in this thread) I'll be more careful about how I present the summary.
Below are the data I found. You are welcome to read the (more than) 1.100 posts to verify the numbers yourself. Some didn't post their km (miles) as it happened, and a few were inconsistent. Only two reported more than one failure. And I am sure someone will dig out the post where it is claimed that 17 failures has occured in Singapore, and demand it to be added to the reported 46; you are welcome
Now I'm off to pursue other pleasures!
Username miles Oddometer Comment
roo56 267 1
gsdonovan 320 145
tailbone 2500 46
redbull addict 7100 663
adamr 1400 32
adrian_8 210 "a buddy"
bobfv1 22000 18.000
petrol igniter 1000 21
BriKielGSman 11000 404 "Happened to Larry"
NYC_GS 2500 203
nbeener 2700 950
blueridger 160 148
elgringo 5287 56
hmr71 4900 318
mikshaf 5200 8
sennasixty8 136 "happened 3 times!"
shedrat 2200 1
pup66 4425 1
jersey_guy 5500 1
gsmoto31 4000 17
Jimbo_gs 2000 1
bikewider 6100 35
ind_gs 600 11
the bwana 15 6
pidgeonfarmboy 666 10
warden 200 74 "happened 2 times"
honus 2 "after fall"
gonz 500 693
kristen77042 8 " a friend"
tkp_cgy 4900 73
blueute 165 1
javas 171 17
tyrannosaurus_mex 2500 19
klrobins 16096 67
fr8dog 966 1
Mine went on Saturday 4/19. 3505 on the odometer, 100 miles from home, 3 hour wait for a $440 tow. That's what I call technology. I'd have a 990 KTM if it wasn't such a bitch to maintain.
I've never had the EWS problem, and -- if bored -- will try to figure out what I posted that made you think I had.
[EDIT: I found it. I wrote
But ... nah ... I haven't had that failure. I'm just in the camp of those looking to solve the puzzle ]
Everyone just assumes you have problems. Not sure why.
oser oser oser
I just noticed that the very first post in this thread was March 18, 2007.
GS1200's were being purchased in Sept. of 2005.
I understand that the EWS error is often seen at very low mileages.
Where were all the failures for 18 months???
I raise these points becaus, taken together, they seem to indicate to me that either BMW had better antennae rings in the early bikes, or, more likely, IMO, the failure rate is really very, very low, and it took until tens of thousands of bikes were on the road until the problem of 40 some failures reported here raised its ugly head.
Dammit, will I or won't I fork out good money for a spare ring??????????
Gee, only 40 failures? Where did that definitive number come from? Repeat after me.."there is no problem, it is a very, very small problem, all things mechanical fail"....blah, blah, blah..
Back to: Why the hell are bikes getting stranded with "EWS"? And, Why the hell doesn't BMW fix it!
My MegaMoto failed yesterday while on a ride. It started long enough for me to get home (after about 200 tries) then did the same thing at home. Later it started. WTF???
Since Ducati does seem to have something similar on their bikes, I wonder how many owners are getting stranded. This is fuzzy from memory, but it seemed like on my gf's Monster, you had a special red key that could be used to put the computer into a special mode so that it would be re-programmed to take the regular ignition key. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but I thought that was the deal.
You raise good points, but ... let me throw another wrench into the works
Tag's study and your comments could suggest another issue: not everybody is willing to be the first to raise the subject of a problem that they had, or even knew that it was anything to be concerned about.
I wonder how many people, particularly in the early stages, or those whose "oddometer" (at the time) read 1, simply Googled "r1200gs AND EWS warning" (or similar. You get the idea).
In the early days (before this thread, or before it gained inertia), Google may have returned very little or no actual information.
This issue may have existed -- in similar or dissimilar numbers -- BEFORE this thread existed. The thread, however, achieved prominence in Google searches, allowing it to gather a bit of momentum, and -- perhaps -- leading people to sign up and air their grievance about DBS (Dead Beemer Syndrome).
Given time, and subsequent postings by each of these people, we'd lose track of whether or not EWS was their first ... unless it was and is their only (some stayed in the community. Others ... well ... fuck the others )
Does that make sense?
As always, we all put up good theories ... but ... none of us knows a damned thing
So ... anecdotally ... we have this (correct me if I'm wrong):
some people have had the failure twice -- once on the OEM ring and once on the replacement ring, but ...
AFAIK ... NOBODY has had the problem NOT be solved by a replacement or invoking their spare.
Is that right?
If so, then the cheap insurance* IS STILL found in buying and carrying the spare (and learning how to install it in the field) ... in whatever BMW's latest part number is.
Does that sound right to everybody?
I have ab-so-lute-ly no illusions that BMWNA is going to assign an engineer to come on AdvRider and sort this through, using us as sounding boards for their bug-fix process, BUT ... it would be good if -- realizing that we are NOT (largely!) the enemy, and that we ARE (largely) all hoping for the same end -- they would involve "us," somehow, in the process.
I think if they let Poolside loose with THEIR toys, and all the keys to the kingdom, he'd beat this thing in about an hour
*Actually, MY way IS cheaper: hold out in hopes that YetiGS will buy one, and then head to WARPED with him
PS Remember what you ride, a BMW (Bitch Moan Whine). If they own a BMW they will not hold back!
<BR>Run out of hand lotion Leo? You seem upset.
Isn't that why the newsleter is titled "BMW MOAN"?
Here's something possibly relevent: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.08/carkey_pr.html
Pinch My Ride
Ignition keys equipped with signal-emitting chips were supposed to put car thieves out of business. No such luck but try telling that to your insurance company.
By Brad Stone