EWS Immobilizer antenna threadfest

Discussion in 'GS Boxers' started by CarbonCat, Apr 8, 2006.

  1. jpalamar

    jpalamar Long timer

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    Not to antagonize, but IMO the problem is part no. irrelevant since it seems that they all fail, including new ones off of the ass'y line. And, enough data around that says many old one's don't fail. Also, the inventory at the dealers' service department I'm quite sure not being rotated/filled with latest parts? But, I could be wrong and perhaps some BMW employee can verify that last piece of speculation on my part.
  2. dometop

    dometop Adventurer

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    I agree with your thinking but when I asked that question the Dealer parts manager said BMW part numbers aren't always in numerical sequence. Seems strange to me also. The dealer called and the part was received today. I again asked the part number and price and he read the information off the invoice: Part no. 61357705247 Price: $82.50. I agree with the rational to keep this number off the FAQ until we get conformation from another dealer. I don't plan on picking up the part until I'm certain it's the latest one.
  3. klrobins

    klrobins Been here awhile

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    for what its worth I just had my antenna ring changed last week under warantee. Part number 61-35-7-696-463
  4. virgilus

    virgilus Been here awhile

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    Sunday morning 9.00 am in the Catskills I decide to pull on the side to change my wet gloves and take a l,,,k. Try to start the tractor????? All I get is an EWS. FFFFF,,,,,,,,. I am in the middle of the mountains, raining and aprox 45 degree outside. I look around me and all I can see is trees,a poorly county maintain road and no cars on vue for the last 30 min. You want to tell me that after i just sign a 22k,s check two weeks a go I cant even say something because I am whining????. At that time if I had the chance to see that engeneer I would probabily reap his head off, tie him behind my bike to show him where I am going and what i am doing with this bike.Not every one is using this bike for pictures only. I am not against progress or new technology but they should try this on they own pocket not on procentage and probability even if it means that the other company will come with this future on the market a month or six ahead of them. THIS BIKE LOOKS AND SOUNDS LIKE A TRACTOR. SHOULD BE AS RELIABLE AS A TRACTOR if they want me to believe on those nice comercials. It always make me wonder wy my Tacoma with 240 k never fail starting (except a dead battery) and my Buddy M3 got towed to the dealler twice in three months????. No one knows how much the other sacrified to be abble to aford this bike therefor I dont think that enyone have the right to tell me, you or anyone else if i can complain. This is my third BMW Adventure in the last four years and i am pretty sure there will be more to come but they have to put it togheter if they want people to trust them. In the same time M. Von Baden this forum is the only place where people can let it goooo. The fact that you or anyone else is telling us about theirs missfortune I dont take this as "B,M,W. Maybe not every one is as lucky as you or me are.Remember ,,,,this could be the same guy that some day may pull on the side to ask you if you,(I), need any help:deal:freaky :D[/quote]
  5. Poolside

    Poolside Syndicated

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    <BR>Hey, speaking of EWS antennas, go out and try to start your bike with the antenna unplugged.

    If that is true, then if the EWS is unplugged, the pair of leads may need a 120ohm terminating resistor.

    From looking at the circuitry in the ECU board, the pair of communication leads to the EWS antenna seem like they might be a CANbus interface. Though separate from the CANbus network on the rest of the bike.

    It's a thought anyway :dunno I mean, there are security screws on the EWS, and I think those are separate from the security screws on the ignition switch. So maybe unplugging the EWS and adding a termination resistor will do the trick.

    <BR>
  6. Poolside

    Poolside Syndicated

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    <BR>From a 1200GS Technical Training manual.

    Immobilizer code data structure.
    The codes used during the handshake are generated from an Immobilizer Rolling Code table assigned to the VIN at the time of manufacturing. The BMS-K and corresponding ignition keys are encoded with this unique data making them an electronically mated pair for one particular motorcycle. The code table provides the codes for each key and a source for BMS-K to check the generated code for each key. Of the three keys supplied with a new motorcycle, each one is uniquely identified (key #, ie: 1, 2, or 3). Each key additionally then has a unique immobilizer code.

    During the key on sequence, the BMS-K first identifies the key sending the code data and then confirms the transmitted immobilizer code for that key. There is the possibility of a maximum of ten keys per system possible. However they must be ordered specifically by the VIN, and activated with the GT1.​


    <BR>
  7. PDsgt

    PDsgt Realistic about life

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    Been reading this thread for the last 4 hours while watching TV. Have not seen a failure reported concerning the latest 136-1 part number. Anyone have a failure with that part? When i call my dealer for an extra ring, he will tell me that the problem has been fixed, and I want to be able to say no it isn't. So and So had a failure on his newest part. I have #136-1 on my 08 GS and hope they have the problem corrected.
  8. dometop

    dometop Adventurer

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    Kristi, were the last three digits (136) followed by -01. I have seen the 136 number listed both ways on this forum.
  9. IND GS

    IND GS Adventurer

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    Ok, I dont know what the record is but I've been hit with the EWS THREE times !! lucky for me it happened at home before a weekend ride. Since I have done the work before, I could swap in the new EWS ring under 1/2 hour. So now I have 3 worthless EWS rings including the original once that came with the bike. (Can you believe I have 4 spares !! bought 2 from Singapore and 2 from Chicago BMW in the US). So far the failed ones were the parts out of Singapore and now am using the one from the US.

    My mechanic is trying to work around the EWS. Hopefully he will come up with a solution soon or I will probably need to stock up again on antenna's. I love this bike to death but this is gettting to be a bit too much. I have a 07 GS with about 1K miles on it.
  10. jpalamar

    jpalamar Long timer

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    I purchased my [spare] antenna ring about 9 months ago. It is the same part no., ending in 463. Which of course leads us to the conclusion that:
    1. Your dealer is using old part nos., since BMW is not replenishing parts inventory with new(er) parts inventory
    2. Your dealer uses what they have in stock as a result of result of item 1.
    3. BMW is not committed to furnishing the 'latest part no.' and are depleting whatever they have
    4. BMW knows it's really the same part, with different numbers
    5. No one knows what the problem is, so, any part will do
    6. All of the above
    7. None of the above
  11. NBeener

    NBeener Long timer

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    I've readily admitted to NOT knowing shit from Shinola, and that my curiosity on this issue is just that: curiosity, BUT ...

    put THIS story together with the stuff posted by Poolside, and I start thinking ... "Pssssssst. Maybe it's NOT the ring???"

    Poolside: I meant to ask you whether /you/ drew any 'conclusions' from that last post of yours ... about how the codes are generated and recognized. To me, that looks like another couple of major possible failure points.

    It may simply be coincidence that the bikes start after the rings are replaced.

    Maybe.

    :dunno
  12. jpalamar

    jpalamar Long timer

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    I have maintained, of course in an unofficial capacity that it might be something else, but the illogical logic is that BMW engineers are: 1. Not stupid 2. Not incompetent 3. They wish to solve this problem. Take that to the final conclusion and one can somewhat deduce...no one knows what's causing it OR it would have been fixed by now!
  13. motoreiter

    motoreiter Long timer

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    Heh, I just took a rare trip to the UKGSer forum, and noticed that of 25 unstickied threads on the first page, 5 of them dealt with EWS issues. Maybe they should create their own megathread?
  14. NBeener

    NBeener Long timer

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    Can't argue with that, but ... it makes one wonder: IF they had determined that it was the ring, then one might HOPE they analyzed the failed rings and found [wait for it] an actual problem that supported that theory.

    If they didn't ... but, rather were poking around in the dark ... maybe they're not as smart as we think ... OR ... their desire NOT to elevate the profile of this thing is hampering their efforts at resolving it.

    Some random code generator that's tied to the same algorithms as the key (like many companies issue to employees for off-site log-in to their servers) seems a lot more likely (to me) to glitch every 100,000th (or whatever) time than the passive antenna ring.

    I'm not saying this should be simple, but I'm starting to think that their unwillingness to tackle this thing in a stark, honest manner may be hindering their ability to fix it in a timely fashion.

    F'rinstance: what if they took the BIKE back from half a dozen people with EWS failures and flew a couple engineers out to evaluate the applicable systems from stem to stern, using all their code readers, logic analyzers, and other widgets to try to find the faults.

    [Do we have ANY information that they've actually done this ... even from owners within, say, 100 miles of their US offices?]

    I may just ping BMWNA ... for shits and giggles ... to see if they have anything new to add....:ear
  15. jpalamar

    jpalamar Long timer

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    But then again (I mentioned this somewhere in the thread), it's such a pissant issue relative to total numbers of bikes sold that replacing it a lot easier.

    Around WW I (Great War) time we were losing large numbers of people to amoebic dysentery. American medicine was stymied trying to find the cure. People were dying of dehydration as a result of severe diarrhea. Medicos were withholding water to abate the diarrhea. The medical solution was to forget the cause (contaminated water with one-celled amoebas) but treat the sympton which was dehydration. Hydrate the sick, and guess what, they all got well.

    Not a one for one but I think perhaps the problem is so miniscule relative to total bikes sold/affected, that BMW may just be treating the symption; that is, slap in a new ring!
  16. xlcr

    xlcr Stop being a dick, dick.

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    You can never have too many spares around . . .

    [​IMG]
  17. Wallowa

    Wallowa Long timer

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    Please let us know if you actually get through to BMWNA and don't get the stock answer to ALL inquires: "Contact your local BMW Dealer"..

    My local dealer a couple of weeks ago said that the 'EWS' issue was just a weird fluke on a couple of bikes and had been fixed by BMW...I don't expect rocket scientists but I do expect competent BMW sales and service folks..

    I agree with those that stated the impetus to fix this problem is not $$$$ urgent enough for BMW to focus their attention on it...and I honestly don't have faith in their overly inflated and hyped engineering prowess. How can you really trust a company that will not tell you about a problem...no if they will not "look me in the eye" they don't earn my trust.

    The one owner has three 'EWS' failures? Hmmm..since new antenna at least temporarily fixed it the antenna seems to be part of the issue...but just my take, something else is confusing or frying the antenna and dropping into the 'EWS'..

    Sorry for all the Blah, Blah, Blah....I fully know it is just 'pissing into the wind'.
  18. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid!

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    :lol3 :lol3 :lol3 Yeah, but it makes you feel all warm, at least until the breeze cools you off!:deal

    Jim :brow
  19. motoreiter

    motoreiter Long timer

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    But then why does replacing the antenna ring seem to fix it (at least temporarily) 100% of the time?? While it seems that while some people have been able to simply wait out the problem (ie, the bike started after several hours w/o replacing ring, etc.)--which would seem to indicate that the antenna ring might not be the issue--this has not worked for many others.

    Over on UKGSer, some have speculated that the problem is caused by moisture, or by some kind of electronic emissions at gas stations...but everyone seems to be just guessing.
  20. NBeener

    NBeener Long timer

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    :dunno

    The short answer is: maybe IT didn't. Correlation doesn't necessarily equal causation.

    Maybe that's the only thing that changed ... as far as we know at this point. But maybe it's not.

    Even under the scenario that there's an overly tight wire/cable tie ... (I really do NOT know the procedure for swapping out rings) ... one cut of one wire (to replace the ring) /could/ temporarily relieve enough strain to close a temporarily open circuit.

    "Could."

    As you say, though, some waited it out ... successfully. Heat causes expansion which CAN cause 'opens' in a circuit. Cooling, then, could cause the contraction, closing the circuit.

    If it were so simple, and the ring were the problem, it'd be difficult to figure out why there are several (apparent) versions of the ring issued since this all started.

    It's just an epoxied ball of wire, no?