EWS Immobilizer antenna threadfest

Discussion in 'GS Boxers' started by CarbonCat, Apr 8, 2006.

  1. Wallowa

    Wallowa Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2006
    Oddometer:
    5,618
    Location:
    NE Oregon
    No problem just wear a tin foil pyramid hat when gassing up and vex those pesky electronic emissions! :lol3 Unless they are emitted by 'Black Helicopters'!
  2. klrobins

    klrobins Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2007
    Oddometer:
    140
    Location:
    Brisvegas, Australia
    Nope... the part number was 61-35-7-696-463 thats it.
  3. Just_Sean

    Just_Sean herewegoagain

    Joined:
    May 19, 2005
    Oddometer:
    14,510
    Location:
    NOT Brooklyn
    Man, I just read like, 5 or 6 posts in this thread - it's almost as bad as Dr ABS' brake failure thread :lol3
  4. SocalRob

    SocalRob Long timer

    Joined:
    May 23, 2006
    Oddometer:
    18,115
    Location:
    Los Angeles @ base of Angeles Crest Hwy
    OK, reading the last 10 or so posts has been entertaining.

    Maybe there is a possibility that this is a software induced hardware problem. The key is not recognized for whatever reason, and the security software glitches & freezes out the current ring. I like that theory about the numbers generator glitching every once in a while. When it does glitch maybe it causes further security software glitches.

    It would be interesting to see if unplugging the existing ring from the harness, maybe futzing with trying to start the bike with no ring, then plugging the existing (apparently defective ring) back in, and see if the bike starts. Has anybody taken a "defective" ring and tried it in another bike?

    I guess what I'm thinking is maybe the very act of unplugging and plugging back in the ring is somehow performing a reset?

    I like this thread as the EWS problem, while a pain in the ass, IMO, is not as bad as the FD, which you can't really carry a spare for. I mean we are all bitching about having to carry what may be as cheap as an $85 part like its the end of the world on a $20K bike.:lol3

    I have yet to read about a EWS problem on a Ducati board. Those crazy Italians and their unreliable electronics:eek1
  5. Wallowa

    Wallowa Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2006
    Oddometer:
    5,618
    Location:
    NE Oregon
    Yes but the Italians do not have 'Lucasi' electronics! Or, was the 'Lucarad'?
  6. DaveT

    DaveT Irv Seaver Parts

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2006
    Oddometer:
    417
    Location:
    Orange, Ca
    Ring antenna part availablility as of today:
    ====================
    Discontinued & no longer in stock @ BMW USA:

    61357717136
    61357696463
    65217671272

    ======================
    Discontinued & quantity one remaining in stock @ BMW USA:

    61357714207
    =======================
    Current latest ring antenna:

    78 currently in stock @ BMW USA:

    61357705247 !!!

    MSRP = $82.52


    =====================

    Written explanation from BMW about the nature of the several part numbers in the chain, about any qualitative differences among them, about the next (perhaps imminent) new part number to be created, about any one of the part numbers being defective or better or worse than any other, etc etc:

    None at all.

    See note below.

    =======================

    (Note: With BMW and other OEM part systems, there is such a thing as a "forward-only" supercession, where "The new part can be used in place of the old part, but the old part cannot be used in place of the new part". Among the five antenna numbers created to date, depending on individual bike VIN, there are a few such supercessions. So, it is not absolutely true that any one of the five numbers can be used on any bike. BMW has not in print instructed dealers to discontinue use of any of the four "older" numbers; dealers are welcome (whilst keeping any F-O supercessions in mind) to sell and install them until depleted. Rendering a globally-relevant, detailed and meaningful explanation of the limitations of such supercessions in this case is not feasible. Rather, one can ask which part number or numbers can and should currently be used on any one VIN.

    ============================
    Dealer solution:

    Consult dealer-only 'ETK' catalog for proper part number per individual VIN; sell what is on the shelf unless contraindicated by forward-only supercession, or order appropriately from BMW and sell whatever they ship.
    ==========================

    Consult your local dealer per your VIN for current proper antenna.
  7. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid!

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Oddometer:
    65,493
    Location:
    Alexandria, VA
    Thanks Dave, but you forgot the amount.:evil

    Jim :brow
  8. Wallowa

    Wallowa Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2006
    Oddometer:
    5,618
    Location:
    NE Oregon
    Jim...what did I miss..he has the amount $82.52..

    Dave...Have you asked BMW what has changed in these antenna? And why they are going through these changes?
  9. Poolside

    Poolside Syndicated

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2003
    Oddometer:
    11,887
    Location:
    Silicon Beach, CA
    <BR>From a 1200GS Technical Training manual.

    Immobilizer code data structure.
    The codes used during the handshake are generated from an Immobilizer Rolling Code table assigned to the VIN at the time of manufacturing. The BMS-K and corresponding ignition keys are encoded with this unique data making them an electronically mated pair for one particular motorcycle. The code table provides the codes for each key and a source for BMS-K to check the generated code for each key. Of the three [transponder] keys supplied with a new motorcycle, each one is uniquely identified (key #, ie: 1, 2, or 3). Each key additionally then has a unique immobilizer code.

    During the key on sequence, the BMS-K first identifies the key sending the code data and then confirms the transmitted immobilizer code for that key. There is the possibility of a maximum of ten keys per system possible. However they must be ordered specifically by the VIN, and activated with the GT1.


    Comes with three keys. How many people received their three keys?

    Someone posted a while back about Honda immobilizers, and I think Harley Davidson and Ducati too, can be switched off with some code combination of switch presses, of the turn signals or brake lever for instance. Each bike having a different code. The manual 'switch off immobilizer' code based on the vehicle VIN is a fit, and also complies with the DOT immobilizer regulations of passive arming.

    - - - - - -


    Hey, speaking of EWS antennas, go out and try to start your bike with the antenna unplugged.

    John (Jpalamar) was kind enough to send me a 1200 ECU and transponder key.

    From looking at the circuitry in the ECU board, the pair of communication leads to the EWS antenna seem like they might be a CANbus interface. Separate though, from the CANbus network on the rest of the bike.

    If the comm leads to the EWS antenna are CANbus, then if the EWS is unplugged, the pair of leads may need a 120ohm terminating resistor.

    Maybe the bike will start without the EWS antenna. But it might need a terminating resistor on the data leads.

    It's a thought anyway :dunno I mean, there are security screws on the EWS, and I think those are separate from the security screws on the ignition switch. Maybe the ECU will let the bike start without the EWS antenna circuitry. No EWS antenna (but with a terminating resistor in it's stead) is different than a defective EWS.

    So maybe unplugging the EWS and adding a termination resistor will do the trick.

    <BR>
  10. Fr8dog

    Fr8dog -

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2007
    Oddometer:
    25
    Location:
    Lebanon, OH USA
    Just dropped my bike (aka. $20 large paper weight) @ the dealer, for EWS fault. He sez's it is the first one he has seen....Hmmm? Will see what comes of this mess.
    Do we play the parts numbers boxed or straight in the lotto....

    -No way to delay that trouble comin' everyday!-
    Frank Zappa
  11. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid!

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Oddometer:
    65,493
    Location:
    Alexandria, VA
    Check it out, he edited it after my post, presumably to add additional information.

    Jim :brow
  12. xlcr

    xlcr Stop being a dick, dick.

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Oddometer:
    4,895
    Location:
    SoCal
    He beat the deadline and his price addition didn't get tagged as an edit. (Not surprising since you jumped on it as soon as it was submitted.) He later came back and added the text after the price. That was tagged as an edit @ 12:34PDT.
  13. Y E T I

    Y E T I Unpossible

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2007
    Oddometer:
    8,335
    Location:
    San Diego
    Where's that popcorn eatin' smilie when I need him . . .??

    Even though I have a ring sitting in my tool tray, I'd love to bypass the whole damn thing.
  14. DaveT

    DaveT Irv Seaver Parts

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2006
    Oddometer:
    417
    Location:
    Orange, Ca
    Dave...

    Have you asked BMW what has changed in these antenna, a
    nd have you asked why they are going through these changes??

    No, to date I have not. Besides idle curiosity, or perhaps worry about my own EWS-equipped bike, I have no compelling need to know. BMW USA HQ happens to staff a phone-equipped English-speaking dealer-only technical desk. We try to limit our contacts with them to compelling needs, and consider it bad form to ask the tech desk to pursue such questions when compelling need is absent. Please see my earlier post where I explain in brief the simple reality of what happens when I need a ring antenna for a particular bike: I access a current dealer-only catalog, determine a current part number and pull the trigger. When new information deserving of illumination becomes known to me, I will try to pass it on. BMW has come out with five generations of ring antenna; in the next few years there may be as many more. At some point one would expect a dealer operating under real-world time scarcity to fall back on the basic process described above: simply look it up and sell it.
  15. jpalamar

    jpalamar Long timer

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2005
    Oddometer:
    3,085
    Location:
    Jacksonville, FL (Northeast FL, USA)
    Owning three (3) current model CAN-bus bikes, only the GS Adv ('07) has experienced a failure. The other two, NO.

    Last fall, in anticipation of a long trip I purchase a spare ring. I have the ring and it's one of the discontinued models listed i.e. ending in 463.

    You post(s) implied VIN specificity, but it's the same ring for all of my bikes. Also, does it make sense for me to talk to my dealer's parts manager and exchange out for the latest? [​IMG] Or, is my assertion that they are all failing, so what's the sense?
  16. Wallowa

    Wallowa Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2006
    Oddometer:
    5,618
    Location:
    NE Oregon
    Dave,

    I do thank you for a candid response and to my knowledge your are the only BMW dealer that has spoken up...but damn Dave!

    No compelling reason for you or any dealer to pick up the phone and bother BMW with a question! Gawd forbid!

    Give me a break here....just selling an antenna to a customer after running the VIN and never, never asking why the hell they are failing and why there are seemingly endless "new" versions?

    Compelling reason Dave: Service and responsibility to the customers that bought the bikes. Forget the "bad form" and deliver substance.

    Are BMW dealers afraid of BMW pulling their dealerships if they question problems with the bike? Dealers seem to just pass the buck by saying; "BMW has not informed us" and BMW says "See your dealer"...Pure Catch-22.

    No compelling reason to make an inquire...what a crock!
  17. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid!

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Oddometer:
    65,493
    Location:
    Alexandria, VA
    Just goes to show that many dealers really don't care unless it affects their bottom line.:rolleyes

    Jim :brow
  18. AntonLargiader

    AntonLargiader Long timer

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2003
    Oddometer:
    4,741
    Location:
    Charlottesville, VA
    Wow, guys. Shoot the messenger. IMO Dave contributes some pretty good info here.

    I wouldn't consider fueling this threadfest to be a compelling reason for a dealership to ask their BMWNA contact to run around looking for answers to fairly vague questions. If Irv Seaver's keeping their customers happy, great. Why not talk to your own dealer and convince him that he has a reason to ask?
  19. xlcr

    xlcr Stop being a dick, dick.

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Oddometer:
    4,895
    Location:
    SoCal
    You don't go badgering your primary supplier on the phone, do you?

    [​IMG]
  20. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid!

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Oddometer:
    65,493
    Location:
    Alexandria, VA
    Not sure I get your point? If the dealers were customer advocates, they would not worry about asking pointed questions to reassure their customers.

    BMW should not have an issue with a dealer asking these questions, and certainly they should not try to discourage good customer relations.

    Point is, many dealers simply do not care about the customers, except what they can get out of them.

    That said, I know a couple dealers who would go to bat for the customer, and who would stand up and ask the hard questions of BMW, and have.

    Jim :brow