Extended Carbon Fiber beak.....Help me design it....

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by ebrabaek, Apr 15, 2011.

  1. zgfiredude

    zgfiredude RMAR

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    I'd have to see it without the lower in place, but it looks a little "nose heavy" to me.
    #61
  2. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    Agreed. Which is exactly why I have not decided to tackle this before...... I am working on option 2, which is leave the beak alone, and tinker with stretching the black front of the beak. I already like that better, as no repainting is necessary. You would have to shoot me.....or offer me irish ale.....to get me to paint over my CF.....:D:rofl. This way I think that the front plastic be replaced with a slightly longer Carbon Fiber piece....will be better. Drawback, is that I would need to make it a two piece mould.....which means cost more.....:lol3
    #62
  3. SDDinNH

    SDDinNH Ridgerunner

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    I think it's the "straight" section that needed to be inserted to lengthen it that makes it look slightly odd. Your idea of making it longer in the nose section may correct that if it doesn't come out looking too narrow up there.

    Of course this does eliminate the "Gonzo" look :(:

    :freaky
    #63
  4. gpracer171

    gpracer171 Kodak Courage

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    As you know I have interest in this for some time. I could live with the look of option one as it is better than the low fender that I hate. However, I must say that though it is a bit more work in sculpting the piece, the longer front extension is where I would place my vote.
    #64
  5. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    Ha ha.... yessir....:lol3
    #65
  6. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    When it was all set and done.... the beak was now 2 1/4 inch further forward, and geometrically.... good clearance at full front stroke. As soon as the option is chosen... that low front fender gets ripped of.
    #66
  7. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    After studying it all day..... I think the option two is going to be the ticket. You retain the beak, it it's natural color...... and replace the tooth part black plastic with a nice CF toothy front part..... Many times when I design pieces..... I walkabout for a while, and then a light usually goes on. In visualizing this.... The light went on this afternoon.
    So two piece of release agent applied.....and one layer of epoxy. This is just to protect the original, and to smooth it for casting.

    [​IMG]

    Wheres my light saber.....:D
    Tomorrow the sculpting begins.......:freaky
    #67
  8. MTrider16

    MTrider16 Ridin' in MT

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    Hmm... I dunno. With the F8GS and most of the other GS offerings by BMW, I think function is more important than form. It certianly has never been as sexy as the Honda Intercepter VFR800. Thus I don't see much to dither about, make something that works and go for it. Just my $.02.

    I'm pretty sure whatever you decide will be a quality build.

    David
    #68
  9. therivermonster

    therivermonster Been here awhile

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    I can see how vacuum bagging could be expensive for a small production shop, or even the hobbiest, and I can see how it could have its own learning curve - but, could you elaborate on why you feel that it could be or is difficult?

    One aspect of bagging that is attractive to me is that it helps reduce BUBBLES!!! :evil

    Thanks, Earling!
    #69
  10. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    Yeppers......
    Vacuum bagging offers several benefits......but also several drawbacks. Lets start with the good. Biggest benefit.... It holds the new layup in place, following even the craziest if sharp angles. Second....It squeezes excess resin out and makes for a strong layup, in the process most bubbles are evacuated as well. Those are two important factors, but the latter can almost be replicated with experience. Bad..... Makes a mess.........Costly.......as vacuum are applied.....it can disturb the natural position of the fabric.
    In theory all bubbles should evacuate..... but they don't. I have seen them trapped. So in my opinion that is a variable.
    Run the cost of a few bags, and you will see.... Dont forget the pump, fittings,and chamber, unless you want to run the pump for several hrs.
    I am not here to tell you that vacuum bagging is a bad idea. When you get into the aerospace industry or any structural member..... it is almost always needed. But they don;t have to worry about cost....have a shop...... I am an advocate of what you can do in your garage.....with average skills.....with average tools...... and stay married.....:D:lol3. There are ways around some of the benefits of bagging. A two sided mould will mechanically hold the matrix....
    I will try to sculpt a new front part of this beak, and have a look. I think I can do this without vacuum bagging, as the angles are less crazy.
    #70
  11. MCMXCIVRS

    MCMXCIVRS Long timer

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    I'm still interested in seeing the final product. I agree that the first method was less than attractive. I had considered fabricating a longer beak end too, but my skills with plastics and composites is virtually non-existant, so anything I cobbled up would have been even uglier than your version one. :lol3

    I will add after two years running sans low fender that the extension is not really all that necessary. I haven't had much stuff get thrown up off the front wheel get higher than the headlight level and its really only in rain that I see much at all coming up off it. Sometimes small clods of mud get flung forward, but nothing of any harm in that. I expected to get more spray and such up in my face and all over the bike, but it hasn't proved to be a problem at all. So if the only thing stopping you from doing the fenderectomy is the beak extension, then don't worry about it and get that hazard off your bike. But I do want to see the extension just the same knowing how well your other projects have turned out.:thumb
    #71
  12. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    Ha ha.... Yeppers.... After cutting/sanding the foam piece for an hr or two.... It was a sinking feeling to see it on the bike....:D So you think that then even one inch beak extension would be an improvement.....???
    #72
  13. MCMXCIVRS

    MCMXCIVRS Long timer

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    Can't hurt as long as the lines look good on the bike. Even if it is only minimally more effective, just being CF it will be cool. :clap
    #73
  14. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    Got ya.... out to mould then.....:D:freaky
    #74
  15. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    So after the beak have been protected...... It is time to share another little trade secret.....( not sure how many I still have....:lol3)..... You gotta ask yourself, if you are the dough making type..... My little brother in Denmark would be spitting out his beer reading this, as that could be referring to something else..... But we will leave that for another day. You can buy epoxy dough, but it is rather expensive. So here is another trade secret..... Still have a few left....:D:lol3.... Grap whatever you have..... in this case plaster..... or gypsum.....you can even use flour...... I know this as a fact.....:lol3:lol3.....
    [​IMG]


    Then mix your epoxy....and then just add the powder a little at a time....... just before your stir stick breaks.... pour it on a sheet of plastic on the table, and pretend you are making a loaf of bread..... When it is almost sticking to your hand upside down....it's ready.
    <a href="<iframe width=" 560"="" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/xjj65CISZIU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen="">"><a href="<iframe width=" 560"="" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/xjj65CISZIU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""><iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/xjj65CISZIU" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

    Then you just sculpt up what you need...... If you did not put enough powder in it....it will sag a little, Just to be safe.... I braced the mix.....
    [​IMG]

    This will then sit until tomorrow, when the shaping takes place.....
    #75
  16. SDDinNH

    SDDinNH Ridgerunner

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    I find it amazing that you are willing to share your secrets with us. I probably will never make anything like the things that you do, but I love reading your articles about how this is done :clap

    Thank you
    #76
  17. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    It is my pleasure Steve. I enjoy seeing others benefit from them..... :D I have been keeping the dough making technique for a while......and this was a good time to share it....:freaky:clap
    #77
  18. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    Sooooo... after a few days in the sofa sick..... I am back at it..... As with any project you do, regardless of nature, you try to evaluate how things are..... Hopefully...:lol3. As projects get more difficult, those steps becomes important, as they will become a detriment to success when you wonder down the long road, only to find that its a dead end. So stages me amigo's......Stages. Where they are....is pretty much up to you. I reached one of those today, where I had to take a hard look at this to see if I really wanted to mess up those "beak" lines. I have been a skeptic since the get go, on this project, but today I have determined that this is worth of the next step. I will compare this with a proof of concept stage.....and perhaps then some. Slowly it is morphing into something I can use. Mind you the silica that I used to make the epoxy paste, is really great in slowing down the dremel.....saw....file, so you don't have any accidents..... Bad thing..... It does just that... So patience....:D.
    [​IMG]
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    Double vacuum setup......check.....Mask.....check...... go.
    [​IMG]

    Lunch.....
    #78
  19. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    Before you spit out the espresso...... I will say this: The color difference makes it jump out........ a whole lot.
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    This is the rough proof of concept, that will also serve as a plug to lay the fabric for the mould. The plug now will undergo some smoothing out, so the fabric will conform better, and then the final shape really will depend on the cast. One thing is how I would like it to be, and another is how the fabric wants it to be......:D... Rarely do we agree. Since this will be a mould piece with possible reproductions, there will be no vacuum bagging. At this stage, I feel that this will look good to me as a one piece CF........Did I say lunch........:clap
    #79
  20. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    Sanded smooth...... corners adjusted....... Mold release applied...... Amazing what a few adjustments can do....
    [​IMG]
    #80