f800gs ABS or not?

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by tundra61, Aug 18, 2009.

  1. tundra61

    tundra61 I wish I had a title

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    I am thinking about getting an f800gs and I know there are some decent deals on non-ABS models.

    Please share your opinion on the real value of ABS on this bike.
    #1
  2. wbt76

    wbt76 Adventurer

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    It definitely would not be a deal breaker for me, in fact if I could have gotten my 1200 with esa and not the abs I would have to save the grand. You turn it off on the real dirt anyway. It does work pretty good though. I was playing around with it on gravel and was pretty impressed on how well it worked. Good luck when you make your purchase
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  3. GB

    GB . Administrator

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    GSpot is for the boxer GS as per the posted announcement.. moved to Beasts.
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  4. mdski

    mdski Adventurer

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    I agree that it's not a deal breaker, however if you plan on running knobbies it may come in handy. On the road, with street oriented tires it rarely activates, but after I switched to TKC's it kicks in a lot under moderately heavy braking and, obviously, more in the wet. So I like having it for the peace of mind in everyday commuting/emergency situations.
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  5. Bushwhacker

    Bushwhacker Dirt, Sweat & Gears

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    It would be a deal breaker for me. Local dealer had one they had ordered for someone who passed on it and they offered me a deal. I passed and waited on one with ABS.
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  6. PackMule

    PackMule love what you do Super Moderator

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    It's a worthwhile option. One of those "never knew you needed it" things; I recently took a long trip on my non-abs bike, which has better brakes than the GS. I still found myself wishing for the abs, especially when we were riding in shit weather or dodgy roads.

    I figure it'll probably save me on some slippery night with knobbies. If it does once, it's paid for itself.
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  7. wbt76

    wbt76 Adventurer

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    Good point. I plan on putting on knobbies, and did not even think about braking on the road.
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  8. Law Dawg (ret)

    Law Dawg (ret) Been here awhile

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  9. tmex

    tmex Long timer

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    You cannot see light when your eyes are closed and your mind is made up. Someone who has plunked down a grand on a very high margin option wants to believe they did the right thing. "If I only need it once it will be worth it" is the mantra. The simple undisputed fact is that sophisticated testing has shown over and over again that ABS is beneficial on wet pavement and only wet pavement. In all other conditions it leads to longer stopping distances. Again I ask, why arm yourself for a singularity and disarm yourself for all other conditions.?

    Why don't motoGP bikes have ABS? Why don't formula 1 cars have ABS? High end sport bikes do not offer it as an option. Why do you suppose that is?
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  10. Motoriley

    Motoriley Even my posing is virtual

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    I have 3 small children and a wife. I was going to buy a Toyota minivan with airbags and ABS but then I saw that F1 cars have no ABS, no airbags, only 1 seat and no roof. I'm saving up for one now.
    Nice to see you back tmex but the logic is flawed.
    I do agree that a very skilled rider, under ideal conditions, with prior knowledge of when to brake can beat ABS by a small margin. Sadly that is not the reality of riding out in the big bad world. Your undisputed fact is indeed disputed by many. Show me the research that says that in real world conditions, in panic braking, on dry pavement, people stop faster without ABS or more importantly crash and die less. If you honestly believe that at the end of a long day of riding as you are returning home and are suddenly involved in a panic braking situation that you can beat ABS everytime.....then don't buy it.
    And now I'll wait for someone to start the BS about how ABS is a crutch and all the other "arguments".....asbestos Stich is on.

    http://www.iihs.org/research/topics/pdf/r1110.pdf

    http://www.psychology.nottingham.ac.uk/IAAPdiv13/ICTTP2004papers2/Performance/Vavryn.pdf






    #10
  11. upweekis

    upweekis Long timer

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    When I traded for mine, I told them I would order one without ABS if it would save me money. They wanted to move current stock, and sold me the ABS model for the same money. (it was a trade, and involved a lot of number crunching) I would prefer non-abs if I had the choice.
    #11
  12. reinerka

    reinerka Been here awhile

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    For the F1 they used traction control, Anti Locking systems, etc. for a few years but banned them as it was getting completely boring. Cars would not fly off the road and the driver as a factor in the race was not as much of a factor as it used to be without those systems.

    F1 (and all racing at that) is a spectator sport. If nothing happened during a race nobody would watch it. With all the electronics the only "event" in a race would be some driver having mechanical problems - would you watch that kind of "show"?

    Back to the original post - no ABS would be a deal breaker for me. However to each his own.

    Reiner
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  13. sturgeon

    sturgeon Long timer

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  14. Law Dawg (ret)

    Law Dawg (ret) Been here awhile

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    When I got the F8 it came with a package and if you wanted one you grabbed it ASAP as they were vanishing faster than ice cubes in Death Valley. Mine had an alarm and ABS (my first bike with ABS BTW) and while neither were craved, they were not deal breakers. If it came without ABS I still would have purchased it. I have used the ABS in emergency braking now twice (used it yesterday). It feels very odd to be able to maintain steering control while severe braking. It is going to take some experimenting to learn the plus and minus' of this system. So far I'm glad I have it.

    As to Tmex, are you an nonABS missionary or what? I don't really have a dawg in the ABS nonABS fight and I do know by instinct now how to brake (37 years of pavement experience will do that for you or you won't make it). It is a farkle that is nice to have but, again, not a deal breaker. I will say this, when I am on a track and I have the skill of a Moto GP racer (or in the dirt)...I'll just go ahead and switch off my ABS. I restate "much heat little light".
    #14
  15. tmex

    tmex Long timer

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    It might be of interest to note that Vavryn and Winkelbauer have been compaigning for some time (these guys are on a mission) to make ABS mandatory for motorcycles sold in Australia and also to place horsepower limits on the sale of motorcycles in Australia (see the conclusion page of the reference). People on a mission to mandate something for my own good are frightening to me.

    I will provide contradictory data to the cited references. I am simply a bit busy right now.
    #15
  16. tmex

    tmex Long timer

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    The first link below compares ABS versus non-ABS and the results are basically mixed. Also included are CBS (basically linked braking results) sometimes referred to as LBS. Unfortunately this test does not address the experience of the riders doing the testing.

    http://www.msf-usa.org/imsc/proceedings/a-Green-ComparisonofStoppingDistance.pdf

    This link is from our very own ibmwr group. Please go to the results tables which show that experienced riders (racers and road riders) stop faster without ABS. The novice results are indeed horrible without ABS. LBS results are also included in this reference.

    http://www.ibmwr.org/prodreview/abstests.html

    What none of the references address are the situations where ABS equipped bikes basically "freewheel". Typically a bumpy road surface or a road surface with some sand on it will produce this phenomena. It has received much discussion in the F800.org forum so I won't repeat it here.

    At the end of the day, the choice of ABS or non-ABS should be an informed decision by the purchaser. Obviously, a large number of my brethren here have opted for ABS and I certainly respect their decision, but more importantly I respect their right to make a decision.
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  17. Motoriley

    Motoriley Even my posing is virtual

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    Yes I saw that was one of their recommendations. It might be that as scientists and not enthusiast it seems logical to them. I would be very interested to see your data. Keeping an open mind as I get older is one of my projects. ABS on bikes is a topic I have been following closely since the early BMW and FJ days and haven't seen much anti-ABS data.


    #17
  18. Motoriley

    Motoriley Even my posing is virtual

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    Interesting links tmex. I've added them to my ABS bookmarks. All underlines are mine.

    Link 1
    http://www.msf-usa.org/imsc/proceedi...ngDistance.pdf

    "CONCLUSIONS

    In general, the test results
    demonstrated an improvement in braking
    performance with the use of ABS, whether
    braking on a dry or wet surface even compared
    with the best stops obtained without ABS.
    Without ABS, the rider required
    numerous attempts
    to approach the maximum
    deceleration performance of the motorcycle.
    With the use of ABS, however, the rider was
    able to quickly obtain consistent maximum
    deceleration results,
    whether the vehicle was
    loaded or lightly loaded."


    From link 2

    http://www.ibmwr.org/prodreview/abstests.html

    "In Conclusion

    In the end, everyone could hardly believe just how good ABS really is. It's certainly not a sales gimmick. This is clearly the biggest advance in braking safety since the advent of the disc brake. Our group of testers had just one complaint: Why is ABS not available on more motorcycles?

    At least part of the answer to that question lies in our own resistance to change and, in particular, to bikers' reluctance to abdicate any amount of control of their mounts to "technology." We're a fairly independent lot, and take a certain amount of pride in the fact that we regularly rely on our own abilities and talents to get ourselves out of trouble.

    Still another part of the answer comes with the rather large cost of ABS. High-tech braking has a price, and it's one that is high enough to make most of us stop and think twice about purchasing it. BMW's system adds $1000 and 20 pounds to the equivalent non-ABS models. Honda's system weighs 11 pounds and raises the ST's price tag by $1900 (though to be fair, that also includes the Traction Control System, which we will test in a future issue). The Yamaha is the light-weight king at 9 pounds, adding $1200 to the FJ's retail price.

    I guess in the end the only real question is not whether or not you can afford ABS, but can you afford to ride without it?"
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  19. ChicoJustin

    ChicoJustin n00b

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    I have ABS. I didn't really want to spend a thousand dollars on it but I did because I said to myself "well if I use it once it will be worth it." I have owned many bikes, and none with abs.

    I would not buy it again. I do probably 50/50 on and off road. On road I can stop much faster without abs, and I feel like I have more control and a better feel for the bike with it off (I have TKC's by the way). Off road yes you can switch it off. But it gets annoying because you have to do it every time you start up the bike. No more firing it up and burning out into the dust. You have to hold your finger on that stupid button every time. It's only for a couple seconds but that's annoying to me :D

    If I was to do it all over again I would save that $1k for suspension improvements.

    my .02

    #19
  20. Motoriley

    Motoriley Even my posing is virtual

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    I've heard there is a fuse or connector you can pull to turn it off and not have to reset it all the time.



    #20