F800GS R/R Mosfet replacement....How to...

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by ebrabaek, Apr 13, 2012.

  1. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    So after reading the awesome thread posted by Joel regarding the Batteries, and the stator issues with the bike... I decided to jump on as a beta tester. I have already had one dead battery, but as many explained there were issues with them. I want to raise the charging voltage to 14.2 volt+, and I think by now we have all come to the conclusion that with the exception of a few..... the 8GS is charging too low. So using the link that Joel suplied.... I purchased a Mosfet R/R from a vendor in Joplin,ME. We can get all technical regarding the benefit...etc... But in short By raising the charging voltage to 14.2+.....your charging system would greatly benefit......specially setting you up for a LI battery. So a few measurements was necessary before the surgery. I recognize that the temperature of the case outside the stator is iffy at best, since latent heat from the headers...airflow....etc... will render it mostly .....ummmm. just for fun. But I set it up anyway. After a cold engine start.... and a 8 mile ride 6 of which was on the freeway at 60 mph.... I let the bike idle, and took the following measurements. I got the R/R from this ebay vendor... Thanks to Joel for the link....


    Idle after a 5 minute cool down.....
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    3000 rpm after same 5 minute cool down......
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    Idle after 10 minutes.......
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    Then the fan cycled 4 times....and the voltage dropped to 13.45 volts with the fan on.....
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    After 15 minutes the temp seemed to stabilize at 263.5 deg.F.... The rise was slowed down a lot.....
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    Here is the kit purchased..... No markings.... But very good instructions..... That was written in English...in this country... Which is awesome to see. It was ordered and shipped within one day.. Very good service...
    [​IMG]

    With those baseline measurements in hand.... I will now cut the stock R/R off,and begin the surgery..... Be back shortly with more pics....:eek1

    :thumb:thumb

    Erling
    #1
  2. GB

    GB . Administrator

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    :lurk

    if this is successful, I see a small market for a plug and play conversion kit :evil
    #2
  3. Indy Unlimited

    Indy Unlimited Long timer

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    I got my MOSFET R/R sitting on the bench with a new stator. Will get to it soon as well. Thanks for the beta testing.:clap
    #3
  4. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    IT LIVES.........:D:lol3.... Ok first thing first....
    Removal of the stock R/R....
    [​IMG]

    Remove the seat.....
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    Start removing the top panel.....
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    [​IMG]
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    Side panel removal.....
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    Fairing screw removal.....
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    Side plastic screw removal.....
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    Beak...... two screws removal....
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    side plastic screw next to radiator.....
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    Bottom side panel screw removal....
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    Bike will now look like this.....
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    Disconnect the positive battery terminal.....
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    To be continued....
    #4
  5. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    The two R/R's next to each other.... Stock on the right.....
    [​IMG]

    Follow the three yellow wires backwards from the R/R..... and cut them a couple of inches from the plug.....
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    Solder the three new terminals in..... There are 3 inputs to the new R/R from the stator. It does NOT matter which goes where....
    [​IMG]

    Then trace the DC side back to the plug. Here is where I started scratching my head..... There were two sets of DC wires coming of the R/R. two red with white stripe, and two greens. I do not have an electrical diagram so after ohming and voltage tracing... I concluded that they are run in parallel. Seems odd.... and I am suspicious of that one routes to the ZFE....or another brain box... so when I tie them together.... I now have a constant drain on the battery that otherwhy would only drain when the stator is produccing power.... I will return to this shortly....
    Follow the DC wires to the plug..... Cut them and splice them together......
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    Solder in the positive cable with the 30 amp fuse....
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    And the negative.....
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    It now will look like this....
    [​IMG]

    Drum roll please...................................:freaky:clap:rofl:evil:puke1....
    #5
  6. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    It Lives....... and nicely so ....if I must say......
    Idle charging went up.....
    [​IMG]

    3000 rpm.......
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    AC ripple is about the same.... but controlled better. Recall the stock were about the same.... But then peaked at about 120 milli volt AC..... Regardless of throttle position the AC ripple was steady at 72 Milli volt AC......
    [​IMG]

    I am curently working on the mount. It will mount to the stock holes.... but is to tight for my taste... But more importantly... I wanted to move it to where the Charcoal Cannister once sat..... I am also observing the rate of discharge to make sure some box is not still on since I spliced the two wires.... Perhaps someone with a diagram can chime in.... Or if we can knock Joel of the bike....:D... He could shine some light on this.....:thumb:thumb

    Erling
    #6
  7. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    I have observed the drain switching the key off a dozen times.... and it seems to indicate a 60 milli amp draw, that then drops to 10ma...after about 20 seconds....and after 30 seconds....it drops to zero....indicating all is switching off as it should. I am making a bracket to house the new R/R......and after much thinking I will leave it in the same location...just tilted a bit.... for my taste. It is really up to the individual taste.... but I'm kind of handy with the composites stuff....and can whip a bracket up about as fast as you can saw and bend a sheet of aluminum.... Stay tuned....:thumb:thumb

    Erling
    #7
  8. dsrydr

    dsrydr Been here awhile

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    What large cojones you have. :lol3 Very encouraging. Thanks for posting!
    #8
  9. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    :lol3:lol3..... I must say that I felt about the same intimidation....as right before I head into a level 2-3 thunderstorm....all armored up...... :thumb:thumb

    Erling
    #9
  10. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    So I have observed the battery drain..... and over a two hr span....it went from 13.12 volts to 13.045 volts.....and that looks like a normal idle drain as the cells settles down. The fact that the charging voltage was upped by about 0.5 volts with less AC ripple is very encouraging
    #10
  11. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    Here is a video of the first start...... I was little nervous...... Note how the voltage is climbing and then stabilizing regardless of rpm......

    <a href="%3Ciframe%20width=" 560"="" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/cIZv0Dxb52E" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen="">"><a href="%3Ciframe%20width=" 560"="" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/cIZv0Dxb52E" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""><iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/cIZv0Dxb52E" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

    :thumb:thumb

    Erling
    #11
  12. grndzr0

    grndzr0 its Ground Zero

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    Awesome!!!! Thanks a bunch man!!!

    Ryan
    #12
  13. JRWooden

    JRWooden Long timer

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    Erling:

    1) Per the wiring schematic in the Haynes manual the four wires (two hot and two ground) do indeed go JUST (directly) to the battery and do not wander off to the ZFE or other places. I speculate the same as you ... the needed more current carrying capacity and didn't want to use a single heavier gauge wire as it would make it harder to route the harness.

    2) I'm sure the stock regulator got very hot... I've never put my hand on it...
    I'm sure that the MOSFET regulator still gets hot ... maybe not AS hot...
    So I'm thinking that with the metal bracket bolted to the frame that it does act to extend the heatsink function somewhat .... not sure how big the effect is, but maybe you don't want to use a composite bracket?

    Just because I could, when I took my R/R off to get the P/N off the back I re-assembled it with heatsink grease between the R/R and the bracket and also the bracket to the frame.... I know I know ... don't go all :huh on me ... it only took a minute.:rofl
    #13
  14. grndzr0

    grndzr0 its Ground Zero

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    LOL, Nice!!!

    Ryan
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  15. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    I personally believe that most if not all the heat is dissipated through the front heat sink. For the little time I ran it...it did not get very hot. I did not do any heat testing on the R/R, but have been assured that this unit will hold up to the heat quite fine. This unit is fused at 30 amps. Max draw of the stator is about 28 amps at full screw. I believe this units origin is Japan.:thumb:thumb

    Erling
    #15
  16. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    Yeppers Ryan....:thumb:thumb

    Erling
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  17. Indy Unlimited

    Indy Unlimited Long timer

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    Great work Ebrabaek!

    Just wondering why we could not just cut the wires at the stock RR and solder those to the new connectors and mount the MOFSET to the bracket?
    That would be a very easy install?

    Thans for a great job!
    #17
  18. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    You could.... with no issues..... I just wanted to keep the stock R/R intact.... This way if it did not work.... It would be easy to plug it right back in...... Another thing.... I can put the old one up for graps....since it is intact. Another thought is I like to save the cut wires ...although heat sink tubed....to the back of the install. Either way would work. If you used the stock mounting bracket with this particular R/R.... the positive wire would be very close to the case... About 3-4mm..... It would work.... But I like this mounting position a bit better, but again either will work.....:thumb:thumb

    Erling
    #18
  19. WayneC

    WayneC Long timer

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    The F & G Series singles use the same VR as the F8 & I posted details over in Joel's thread

    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18453413&postcount=173

    What markings are on the VR you purchased ?. Would be interested if you could provide it

    The one which I considered as a replacement with good overhead on spec was the shindengen FH019
    which has 50 amp capability & seems the same packaging dimensions but have not seen any at retail level

    http://www.shindengen.co.jp/product_e/electro/catalog.html
    #19
  20. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    There are no marks on the R/R that I purchased.... But this is from the ebay site from where I purchased it.....

    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] SHINDENGEN MOSFET FH012AA REGULATOR/RECTIFIER 12V

    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Note: later this year Shindengen will be replacing this regulator with a updated version, the new part number will be FH020AA the updated version will replace the former FH012AA. The updated version is physically the same size only minor changes have been made to the heat sink casting.[/FONT]

    KIT INCLUDES
    * WEATHER PROOF CONNECTORS FOR SHINDENGEN REGULATORS
    *COMPLETE INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS WITH PICTURES
    *WEATHERPROOF MAXI FUSE HOLDER
    (MAXI FUSE HOLDER HAS 10GAUGE WIRE AND CAN HANDLE 55AMPS)

    *30A MAXI FUSE (BUSS BRAND)

    *3 FT OF 10 GAUGE PRIMARY WIRE RED
    *3 FT OF 10 GAUGE PRIMARY WIRE BLACK
    * RING TERMINALS 3M (POS. RING TERMINAL W/ HEAT SHRINK END)
    * 4 3M BUTT SPLICE CONNECTORS (W/HEAT SHRINK ENDS)

    This is a universal regulator/rectifier kit and charging system upgrade kit.
    The kit can be used to upgrade most 2 wire and 3 wire stator systems.
    This voltage regulator is great for replacing existing undersized or obsolete regulators.
    The advanced MOSFET construction will run cooler than all OEM diode style regulators.
    In addition, this rectifier has overheat protection, rather than burn up it will simply turn off for a while and cool off.
    This regulator is capable of 50amps continuous 3 phase and 30amp single phase.


    Maxi fuse protected, unlike circuit breakers which over time can get weak and be prone to nuisance tripping.

    (NOTE)Not for motorcycles with 5 wire stators in which 2 of them are for brushes.

    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]For your reference the mounting center to center is 67.5mm to 72.5mm using 6mm bolts the bolt center could be filled wider or a adapter plate could be made for other mounting applications.[/FONT]


    Often the stator has failed and the regulator gets the blame. A stator is difficult to check completely as they often fail only when hot.
    These simple checks will find some bad stators, but a stator that passes these checks may still be defective.

    1. Check the resistance between the leads, this is normally under 1 or 2 ohms. If you have a 3 phase stator, the resistance between each of the 3 lead combination's (AB,AC,BC) should be equal. If you see higher resistance, or unequal resistances, the stator is bad.
    2. Check the resistance to ground, it should be well over 10 Meg ohm.

    Battery condition is important. No regulator can make up for a bad or weak battery.
    If in doubt charge your battery and have it load tested, or simply replace it.
    ALWAYS START WITH A FULLY CHARGED BATTERY

    I also sell this with the connectors only LINK BELOW:

    <table border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="2"><tbody><tr><td align="center">[FONT=Arial,sans-serif][​IMG]
    Shindengen regulator w/connectors
    </td></tr></tbody></table>[/FONT]


    [FONT=Arial,sans-serif]Visit My eBay Store: MOTO-ELECTRIX


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    #20