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Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by nzcvlh, Mar 18, 2010.
I believe LukasM did.
This I know nothing about.
Still trying to wrap my head around the benifit over cost of maintaining a gas unit.
Is it that much better?
That's up to each individual rider. I was encouraged to keep the Bitubo units after they leaked and broke a few shims. I was ready to order the Traxxion kit otherwise.
I can't say either kit (Bitubo or Traxxion) is an inexpensive way to go, but it has meant being able to keep my 800 and be relatively happy w/ the front suspension.
In my case, I wasn't willing to swap forks, so the kit was the way to go.
You're right on the money AKTroy. Regular non-gas-charged oil-valved cartridge forks do not require a full rebuild as frequent as yearly unless you're racing enduros all season. Regular yearly no-race service on a non-gas-charged oil-valved cartridge fork is much less expensive since it's typically just an oil change, unless a seal or two needs replacing. Oil: $25 give or take $5. Seals (if they need replacing): $35 give or take $5. The rest is a visual inspection, maybe replace bushings. If something is noticed and needs replacing, it could hike the price a wee bit, but not much more. So the point is this: you pay more up front for regular non-gas-charged oil-valved cartridge forks (Ohlins, Rec-tech, Traxxion), but the regular service over time is less expensive. Typically just oil every year for the average GS rider. Seals and bushings every 2-3 years.
Service from suspension experts on regular non-gas-charged oil-valved cartridge forks is cheaper as well:
Here is the Bitubo manual.
I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but maybe throw some info out for those considering the Traxxion kit vs. Bitubo.
I think so. I have done over 10 adventure bikes with them now and no one has complained with the latest settings we developed for Traxxion Dynamics AK-20 Kit.
I even built an adventure bike for my buddy with the same set up on his Versys. Works great!
I could never get this set-up to my liking. The AKs limit the fork travel and did not have enough compression resistence to prevent bottoming during off road use. I even added the preload adjusters at the last tuning. I ended up pulling and selling them.
They are OK for on-road and do reduce brake dive.
I have had stock, Hyperpro, traxxion and now have Ohlins. The Ohlins 30mm set-up is the best by far and gives the maximum range of adjustablility to go from on to off road. The only area that is not to my liking is rapid, high speed compliance such as washboard gravel roads. It is not as plush as I would like, but since that is not what I ride it is worth it for the other benefits. I have two sets of wheels... one with street tires and the other with knobs. I ride the ends of the dual sport extremes and don't spend much time in the middle (ie gravel roads). Dave
I now have the Traxxion AK20 system up front with the Ohlins rear. Took a bit to get the front dialed in to my liking. Brake dive is indeed gone. Bike is much more stable and planted. No wallowing in the turns. Performs very well about everywhere I've hammered it. And, I indeed wasted no time torture testing it.
Except, it does bottom out (up front) off jumps. I've not been able to eliminate that. So, I agree with nzcvlh on that. I've been slowly adding to the oil level in hopes to eliminate the fender clashing. I'm past 115mm, maybe close to 120mm. She still bottoms out the same. I can't say it "limits fork travel", as I'm bottoming out fender to beak on hard jumps! So, I don't understand that comment (above).
I decided to just ride it a while and quit fiddling with it. I'm not out jumping it every day. But, it is fun to jump my 35 ft. Table-Top out back with the F8 now. Couldn't do that before with the stock suspension. Wouldn't even have dared to try.
Its an expensive setup, but it has definitely transformed the bike into something closer to my personal spec's. I do like a plush ride on the road. Hit a lot of dirt, gravel, rocky forest roads. So, maybe its a good choice for me after all. Wish it didn't bottom out like this, though.
p.s. Indy's rear shock mod is superb! Definitely a requirement for beefing up the top mount.
We need Video!!
No problem, I can work on that. But, I'll have to change my fork seal first. I kind of sprung a leak in the Rebound side, and all the oil has drained out over the last couple of weeks. And somehow, I've acquired a significant flat spot in the front rim. Now....how on earth did that happen?
Might be time to call Woody, if I can't beat it back into shape. with a wood block. So, I've got to fix some stuff before I get back to that action.
"They" got to quit using tinker toys to make these things. Or, at least stop claiming these bikes are the Ultimate Adventure Machines Capable of Kicking Butt & Taking Names...
Swear I've paid for this bike twice by the time I've gotten up to my specs.
But, I surely do love it....every day I ride it.
For those that need more bottoming resistance they should try a 10W fork oil at 100 mm from the top of the compressed fork. I dont jump 35 ' tabletops but the occasional bottoming during your tough rides is a sign of good suspension settings. If you bottom to hard play with fork oil weight and volume.
Thanks for the input, Indy. I need to correct my post above. I went the wrong direction with the measurement. I started at 115mm to oil level, and slowly began adding oil a few ounces at a time. I'm purely guessing that I am somewhere between 105 and 110mm, based on additional volume. At least, before my seal began to leak.
Started wondering if I put too much oil in it, and that's what blew my seal. But, I don't think so.....especially if you think I can run it at 100mm level.
Please elaborate on your heavier oil comment. How will 10w prevent bottoming out versus the 7w I am currently running? I was assuming oil level was the primary factor.....needing to reach a hydraulic locking point very near the travel limit.
I was actually wanting to try 5w, due to the fact that my compression adjuster is all the way out (min. compression) to get the feel I want. The Traxxion adjusters are very sensitive/effective. It feels real good there, but I'm out of any additional adjustment range (to the low soft side).
I just put new seals into mine. With the Bitubo cartridges I'm running 90mm gap, and I really have to try to bottom it out. Can't recall the spring weight, sorry...
Spring rate should be around 0.60 kg for most riders and loads for adventure riding on the BMW F800GS. Lighter riders can use 0.55kg. Traxxion sends the units out with 7.5 W oil and recommends around 125mm fill level.
Changing the weight of the oil will increase the dampening rates at all levels. Increasing the fill level to around 100mm will provide more bottoming resistance at the end of the stroke. Either way if you need to adjust the high speed dampening only the best way is to send the cartridge in for a internal parts swap.
Correct, Dan. My Traxxion spring is 0.6 and the original oil install (which came with it) was 7.5wt Maxima.
Changed my fork seal yesterday, and swapped the oil to 5wt Torco at 105mm. Fork action feels better to me, a little smoother, a little more compliant, while gaining some compression adjustment (I've gone from C=0 to C=2).
But, I'm still blowing through the whole stroke on a two wheel landing. Got to be careful catching air or I'm going to break something. I think its going to be too harsh action for me at 10wt oil. I believe you're correct in that the High Speed circuit needs modification. I'll investigate that option deeper....thanks for the input.
If I were only going to ride roads (paved & dirt), I wouldn't touch it. She's spot on. But, I plan to do so much more. I've already ridden her rougher than I probably should.....especially in stock form.
You may wonder what it is I want from my suspension.....the answer: everything!
Yah, you're soon to be the newest member of the bent bolt club. Hopefully not the bent frame club, 'cause those guys are nuts!
Well...like I said in previous post, its a really good system. I think you'll like it, Chi. But, it does need more high speed damping for rough conditions. You should discuss that with the Traxxion folks. It takes the head-on bumps well, but really blows through the whole stroke on a two wheel airborne landing.
I'm 5'9" and 175lbs. We sound very similar in size, pack loads, and aggressive riding preferences. Though, I'll have to pass on the high speed, slam-dunks on dirt roads. You win in that regard....I forfeit.
p.s. Yeah....I would definitely recommend the Ohlins be serviced at this point. Worth every penny to freshen it up. Especially, since your revamping the front-end.
I ordered the Traxxion set-up last year and used my weight (230) then added 30 pounds for gear and told them I'm a pretty aggressive rider - they ask you your riding style on the order form.
Indy helped with the install and set the oil level to 125mm if memory serves me correctly (Indy ???). At the same time I installed the Hyperpro rear shock ordered with similar specs. Was very pleased with the Hyperpro but the Traxxion inserts left me kind of disappointed.
Well, what I had assumed was the that the Traxxion kit was 'baselined' from the factory like the Hyperpro - WRONG. It wasn't until a few weeks of riding a very unimpressive and expensive fork set-up that I began to fiddle with the settings - yes, I'm a dumb ass and know almost nothing about forks, valving, oil levels, and spring rates, etc.
They're dialed in now and I am very happy with the Traxxion kit. I still have some minor tweaking in my future as it will bottom out on the really nasty stuff - granted I'm not skying the bike 35 feet but it's a great solution for the severely handicapped stock forks. I'll probably just bring the oil level up another 10/20mm and work on the adjusters from there but it's on it's way to being the best mod I've made.