F800GS vs. KTM 990 Adventure

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by Pantah, Sep 11, 2011.

  1. Ronin ADV

    Ronin ADV Gear addict

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    Start by throwing some better tires on that bike. Probably better look into crash bars and a better skid plate too if you want it to keep its good looks. :lol3
    #21
  2. Umarth

    Umarth Been here awhile

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    correction: 185km/h at red line with side paniers no top case.
    and at high speeds forks are terrible, way way to soft for confident handling.
    #22
  3. xcflyn

    xcflyn Long timer

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    So theory is that if no one complains - it must be a waste of money. That makes sense to me :freaky .
    Think I covered it in my last sentence or two. But throw stones if you must.
    #23
  4. tmex

    tmex Long timer

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    Oh please. How long are the sections on TuneBoy and TuneECU. Got tunes???? If the FI was fixable by remapping don't you think the dealers would be supplied with maps by KTM to make their customers happy? Dealers simply cannot fix the percentage of bikes (which is far from insignificant) that run poorly. I am very close (best riding bro and one heck of a good mechanic) to a guy who tried all that stuff and finally converted to carbs. The OC crowd is literally in denial relative to FI issues.

    I'll freely admit the F8 has issues. OC admits to nothing, and stomps anyone who says otherwise.
    #24
  5. HighFive

    HighFive Never Tap-Out

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    Golly.....I forgot possibly the most important comparison of all: The Pickup Test :muutt

    My 950 was a beast to pickup....as in dead buffalo.

    My F800 is quite easy to stand up....not that I actually ever fall down. :D I said "Test" didn't I ?

    Give that a try when you get your hands on each of these machines. Lay em over....then pick em up.

    The difference was significant for me. But maybe I'm just a putz....I donno.

    HF :baby

    p.s. I'll happily receive either one as a free gift.
    #25
  6. Pantah

    Pantah PJ Fan from Boston

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    Actually, that is a good point. My KTM is so tall, and lays so flat, it can be very difficult to pick up. I would have guessed the BMW would also be tough, but it is lower in height and CG.
    #26
  7. geometrician

    geometrician let's keep going...

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    Hmm... No, KTM & dealers won't be re-mapping anyone's bikes... there are EPA issues (in the US) which trumps any of that nonsense. It is a federal offense to modify any of the intake or exhaust systems, and while we & the aftermarket that supply us ignore that every day, importers & dealerships can't. That said plenty of guys never touch their EFI & are quite happy with their mounts :deal

    The 990 FI mapping has been dealt with for over 5 years; now by buying a single cable and using the free software & maps you can set your bike up to run however you want, with lots of maps to match your mods & needs.

    No "literal" denial at OC, we discuss & fix what we need to and ride... you don't have the corner on "freely admitting" nor do we stomp or flame Inmates who ask questions :ear.

    3 near-flaming posts in this thread against 990s seems you are doing the stomping

    jeez, guys, let's ride
    #27
  8. tmex

    tmex Long timer

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    No flaming intended. Just responding to OP. You are correct, many 990's seem to run just fine. Others defy any remedy to cure the FI (or apparent FI) issues. My best friend worked on his with all the maps and diagnostics available on this site at the time to no avail as well as changing out all the sensors etc. He even swapped ECU's with owners of bikes that ran just fine, and it made no difference. He took the bike to Scuderia West (well-known dealer in SF) and told them he did not want the bike back until it was running "acceptably". While Scuderia readily acknowledged that the bike was running very poorly, they were unable to correct it all. KTM simply does not provide dealers with diagnostic tools with the requisite level of detail. Scuderia finally gave it back to him in the same state it arrived, and he converted to carbs. The bike runs great now. Of the 6 990's I have sampled, 3 were great, 2 were horrible, and one was marginal with respect to the apparent FI performance. I honestly do not know what the issue is. Since some bikes run so well, I am inclined to believe it is the accumulation of tolerances somewhere in the system, and may not have anything to do with the FI at all.
    #28
  9. Pantah

    Pantah PJ Fan from Boston

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    A Federal Offense? :lol3

    EFI motorcycles are re-mapped by dealers all the time. That's why they have their Dynojet Dynomometers...
    #29
  10. Pantah

    Pantah PJ Fan from Boston

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    Nah - KTM dealers anymore have the tools and training to tune LC8's. Seriously, the 2010 LC8's are sweet running motors. Like I said, I rode a SM-T for 100 miles. I was so nice I couldn't believe it was made by the same company as my 950.

    I read about the throttle snatch of the early 990's, but the 2010 I rode was probably the nicest running twin I've ever ridden. Very friendly power delivery and no vibes at all. Very quiet with no rattling from its whirly bits.

    How about that parallel twin? My son say's he wouldn't own a para twin, but I have to think that BMW got theirs right. Mid 80 HP seems a nice benchmark for long distance riding. Is it smooth? Where does the torque come on. 3000rpm like a Ducati or 4000rpm like an LC8?

    Thanks again for your opinions.
    #30
  11. Xanadu

    Xanadu Been here awhile

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    I blew 10 grand on coke and hookers in Vegas once. I get to dry hump and get a rush riding my 950 Adventure every day.

    It's worth the PITA oil change! :freaky
    #31
  12. MookieBlaylock

    MookieBlaylock Long timer

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    wow, what a complete douche you are. Anyway i'd get the triumph before that beemer anyday just cuz it seems like one boring bike in comparison, but of course a 990r would be first choice because of power, suspension and the quality of components.
    #32
  13. Supahflid

    Supahflid Wheelieless

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    I can't speak to the F800 since I've never ridden one, but I just got back from Colorado and Utah on my 2011 990 and I will readily admit that the throttle does seem a little snatchy at low speeds. However, it didn't keep me from being able to adjust and ride the thing slowly through obstacles, switchbacks, rough terrain and sand.

    Heavy? Yes, it's pretty heavy, but not impossible for me to pick up; I would say that any bike that weighs over 350-400 pounds is pretty heavy.

    I've only changed the oil once and it wasn't so bad. Like another poster said, it's probably not a bad idea to give the bike a good once over at least once a year, plus, it gives me a reason to putz around in the garage and drink beer.

    The fuel mileage does suck. I find myself filling up every chance I get for fear of running out of go juice.

    I've done several mods already: Scott's steering damper, sidestand relo, skid plate, longer, wider footpegs and Wolfman racks to name a few. I'm thinking about tubeless wheels, fiddling with the windscreen, adding lights and doing a cooling fan mod. I am not sure if I am having cooling system issues or not, but my bike did overheat a couple of times out west.

    I am sure the list of bikes I have owned is pretty short compared to some of you, but in the short time I have owned the 990, I have come to love her deeply!
    #33
  14. Pantah

    Pantah PJ Fan from Boston

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    As a long term LC8 owner, I think you are just a rank sucker... Your bike never overheated and you didn't need any of those mods. But the biggest signal to your noobness to the sport is that you think you need tubeless wheels. We pay extra for those spokes and tubes! You have never been anywhere remote with a flat in your life. There is a very good reason for using tubes if you are out of reach. You should learn how to spoon rubber like all the rest of us did. The inner tube is your friend. It's not too late to make amends, though: :D

    Neduro has a step-by-step lesson here on how to spoon with no fuss and 100% success not pinching. It's not challenging and even easy with practice. Try it!

    Regarding the word 'love', it only applies to Eyetalian motorcycles. Those bastards on Austria sorely lack in the romance part of the sport...:D

    Although I might be a little bit warmed by that road racer they make. DANG!
    #34
  15. charlie264

    charlie264 Long timer

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    I like the F8, not to get into a debate, but if you are looking to travel two up with luggage, The KTM’s engine and handling is superior, anyone who argues with this, you haven’t ridden both in this mode .
    #35
  16. charlie264

    charlie264 Long timer

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    .
    #36
  17. DesertSurfer

    DesertSurfer Tail sprayin

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    It makes more sense when you compare the different brands rather then their bikes. BMW is more about appealing to the masses. If you like things smooth, easy and dependable and identify that with that in mass... then that pretty much describes the target of the BMW brand.

    If you want to feel the thrill of racing, and are willing to pay for it, then you are the demographic of KTM.

    If you are buying a product from a very small niche company like KTM, there is always the chance that things haven't been completely worked out over the course of a small production run. That's common sense. They do the best they can with the resources available. They test their products out during major racing events like the Dakar Rally. Of course their racers didn't get to test the FI systems, the bikes were outlawed from the race because they were unbeatable.

    KTM's are designed on racing platforms. BMW's are designed with logic and sensibility as a priority.

    Personally, I have more of an appreciation for the risk involved in racing technology. I love the look and feel of the 950 motor. I enjoy it when I'm doing the maintenance. The bike has a hand crafted, solid and robust feel to it. The design is clever, but you have to have a certain kind of interest in mechanics to enjoy it's build. The front end with the addition of a damper is a wonderful display of design and execution. That front end will work wonderfully as the bones on ANY motorcycle, a subtle design that's ahead of it's time.

    A heavy bike? I consider it more of a strong bike, with just the right amount of frame to handle a good ole dune thrashing. Any lighter weight and the strength would have to come out of the frame and swing arm, which would create definite weak points.

    Why a 475 lb. dirt bike? Because for those who like to ride long distances, the power far exceeds the desire for lightness. It's based on the fact that speed reduces the feel of weight. Keep the bike moving and that's where it's nimbleness reveals itself best.

    Fuel economy? It's the sacrifice of your commitment to performance. More performance means more sacrifice. From a motorcycle manufacturer's perspective, a commitment to performance requires certain sacrifices in sensibility. Race design is not trying to appeal to the sensible person, but the one who has a passion for it.

    Now keep in mind that the KTM 990 is still based on a 10 year old platform, which in today's terms is quite old. The fact that it's in the same conversation with the much newer f800 and 800 Triumph dual sport says a lot. The KTM was ahead of it's time. And the f8 and Triumph should have been able to impress all of us a lot more with their initial debuts.

    My 10 year old 950 still kicks ass on those other bikes. I would love to see a bike that out performs, out designs and outdates my KTM 950 as a long distance dual sport Adventure tourer. But it looks like the only companies capable of doing so are KTM itself, possibly Aprilia or perhaps Ducati... with a slim chance BMW gets their Husky race division involved. Those companies have like minded philosophies.

    As far as the Japanese manufacturers go, they are having to redefine themselves after overreaching expansion, bad global economies and a recent devastating disaster. In other words, don't expect much for the future from them.
    #37
  18. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    Just curious as of how they treated your thread on the OC forum......:D....as many 990 owners seems to have been drawn to this deep dark parallel universe.......:clap:clap:freaky:rofl:lol3

    :thumb:thumb

    Erling
    #38
  19. Ducksbane

    Ducksbane Quaaack!!!

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    KTM riders are obsessed and one eyed, but at least they are "real" man! :clap

    I don't really want to join their cult but I do respect their commitment :D.

    No doubt they find it boring and uncomfortable at the same time over here ... but a change is good for you. I think we should welcome them as long as they are civil and appreciate a good latte.
    #39
  20. The Griz

    The Griz Long timer

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    :rofl:clap
    #40