Fairing and fender question

Discussion in 'Some Assembly Required' started by kellymac530, Nov 25, 2012.

  1. kellymac530

    kellymac530 motorcycle addict

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    Glad you are online Sailah.
    Just so can be confident that your input has been taken under advisement and I am doing due dilligence. I have been researching the HPN R900RR and the BMW HP2 enduro bikes for weight and braking specs. I have found weight specs on the HP2 at about 196 kg or 430lbs. I am sure the R900RR is in that area, if someone knows PLEASE chime in.
    Both of those bikes use 2 piston calipers with 304mm rotors.
    I am sure that playing with different diameter MCs and using the SM EBC 320mm rotor kit should give me plenty of whoa if I keep my bike under 450lb ISH....

    $1750 not counting valving is a ton for me and if you take valving out of my equation, I am at $385 for a heavy spoked, 320mm braked inverted fork set up and front wheel. Right back at my original estimate of about $1400 savings and a set of forks I have raced for many years and KNOW I love the feel and action of even more than any of my WP forks on my KTMs.

    Your input has definately made me continue my research and not leap forward blindly. I also will eat humble pie if not effective in the end and will give you your props. As I stated, I am like you in that I like alot of different riding places sand styles. I own 4 bikes currently and plan on other builds, so the worst that can happen is I end up with a great set of forks and brakes for some other lighter build.

    I did also look at the Kawasaki KLR650 new model and older style and they both weigh in at well over 400lbs with the new one at 430lbs, both use a 270mm rotor and a 2 piston caliper. I see most people who ride those seem to love them and most people who are doing the Ninja/Versys 650 enginge swaps seem ok on the brakes. I am shooting for a bike close to that weight so I am still thinking I will be ok.

    After I heal up from my surgery on last wednesday I will start more seriously at my build and start a thread.

    I had to have C5-7 REfused since the first one only barely took on C5/6 and C6/7 had 2 busted Ti screws. I had a bone graft from my right pelvis ileac crest....It sucks and will be months in a C-spine collar and only lifting 3 lbs max....no building any time soon.

    Hopefull at about 3 months post surgical I will get up to about 30-40lbs lifting and can start a build since I will still have 3-6 more months of no riding no helmets....hmmm 3 months to build something cool....we will see.
    #21
  2. sailah

    sailah Lampin' it

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    To be fair, my fz1 has triple the hp of a klr and can achieve warp ten in a blink of an eye, a 270 rotor would not cut it for safety reasons, same with a two pot caliper. Getting the weight down is very important for lots of reasons and it sounds like you have a handle on that.

    Good luck with your recovery and subsequent bike build looking forward to progress as it happens.
    #22
  3. kellymac530

    kellymac530 motorcycle addict

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    Exactly Sailah.
    I am shooting for power somewhere between the KLR and yuor FZ1 and plan on using a 320mm rotor, much better than the 270mm on the KLR. I really hope I will be fine, and believe I will be.

    A side bar question here though, just one of my wierd, idle mind rambling, but I get that a high HP bike will GET up to high speed rapidly, much more so than a doggy bike, but when it comes to stopping power isn't that all about speed and weight or inertia and mass? Where does HP come into play on stopping that equation?

    What I am asking is, if a 1700#, 800hp indy car had the same brakes and tires as a 1700# dragster with 5000hp but both were rolling at 80mph, what would be different in stopping?

    I realize that at 150 or at 300mph the brakes would be very different feeling and working, but stopping a 500# motorcycle from 80mph to 0 with 75 hp would be the same as stopping a 500# MC from 80mph to 0 with 150hp as long as the throttle was off...of course.

    School me if I am wrong....my mind is a spounge...argueable a dry spounge though...lol:rofl
    #23
  4. sailah

    sailah Lampin' it

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    An indy car has a much bigger contact patch and real brakes

    A dragster has a parachute:lol3

    I know zip about cars though. Weight, brakes, and repeated braking, surface conditions, speed etc all play into I think. I've lost rear brakes from boiling fluid on a long downhill on my 950. How thick the rotor is, pads etc. all come into play too. Braking technique as well
    #24
  5. michael1968

    michael1968 Been here awhile

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    You are correct for a single stop in that situation but the higher hp bike would reach higher speeds (if the rider wanted to) on any given straight and so have to dissapate more energy over a certain time, say through a series of straights and bends.

    If the two bikes were just cruising along at the same speed then their brakes could safely be the same.

    But if you have the power you're probably going to want to use it!

    Your 320mm rotor would probably be fine, my F650 has 300mm and weighs ~185kg (407 lbs) and that's more than enough.
    #25
  6. kellymac530

    kellymac530 motorcycle addict

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    :rofl
    Learn to read.... :lol3

    I said "If they had the same brakes and tires"...the point of the story was the big HP difference....many would argue the point is on my head though....and in elementary school it often was.

    Michael,
    Thanx for the help. I thought that HP would make no difference on braking...outside of just USING the HP....which unfortunately I am heavy handed and like the right grip alot so brakes are definately a concern as Sailah has helped me to see.

    This all has given me some great perspective and some things to be ready to address and even expect some issues with.
    I get a bad rap at times, but I am appreciative and try to be helpful although often it seems taken the wrong way...maybe I have not been using enough emoticons....:lol3
    #26
  7. jesusgatos

    jesusgatos fishing with dynamite

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    Biggest advantage of frame-mounted lights and fairing is getting that weight off the handlebars. Really slows down the steering and affects the way the bike feels/rides.
    #27
  8. kellymac530

    kellymac530 motorcycle addict

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    Jesus, or is it Haysues....english pronunciation :D

    I am aware that weight on the front wheel seriously affects the handling and heavy feel in steering, but I guess I kind of always assumed that was all weight on the front end not just on the forks. Interesting input.

    It seems like a bigger frame mounted fairing would usually weigh a bit more than a fairing/mask set up on the forks so the overall front end weight would be even more, but it sounds like you are saying that the added weight right on the forks/bars make the steering itself heavy. Food for thought.

    My only real comparison on that topic is neglegable. Most of my DS bikes have all be more MX based DS bikes with a very small light weight plastic mask and headlight that was not much heavier than an MX number plate. Mine are usually a more Baja Designs style that do not even have a metal frame and glass headlight like some more street oriented DS bikes.

    That kind of sways me back to a frame mount set up and low fender, but still weighing it all out and doing some brain designing...

    Thanks for some new input on the original topic:ear
    #28
  9. jesusgatos

    jesusgatos fishing with dynamite

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    Yeah, it makes a difference. Kind of like rotational weight in your wheels, or sprung vs. unsprung weight. Especially if you're running big/heavy lights. The 8" HID light on my KTM sucks. The weight is really noticeable (but the light is amazing). Frame-mounted setups don't have to be big and heavy...
    #29
  10. kellymac530

    kellymac530 motorcycle addict

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    My only 2 comparisons I would have are the stock setup on my KTM 530 {minimal weight, but as you say, CRAPPY lite} and the RT I have or the GS/GSAs that I have ridden.

    The BMWs I have or have ridden are not a fair comparison to a convention front fork system with a frame mounted light/fairing since they are so different and feel, steer, and brake so much different.

    I appreciate the input...more to compute...computing is above my brain skill set set....it is more of abacus than computer...:rofl
    #30
  11. DRjoe

    DRjoe Long timer

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    I'll admit I haven't read most if what's already been written but I'm pretty sure you guys have missed the most important thing about a fairing.

    If you have a fairing on your dirt/adv bike then you'll look like a fully sik Dakar racer.
    #31
  12. kellymac530

    kellymac530 motorcycle addict

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    QUOTE=DRjoe;20315879]I'll admit I haven't read most if what's already been written but I'm pretty sure you guys have missed the most important thing about a fairing.

    If you have a fairing on your dirt/adv bike then you'll look like a fully sik Dakar racer.[/QUOTE]

    :rofl
    There will be NO mistaking me, or my beast for a Dakar bike...mine will be ugly...like me.
    The rally fairing Idea is on my mind because I do still plan on plenty of slabbing, so it would be nice to have something to take some pressure off the chest at hiway speeds, definately not a neccesity for more dirt stuff, even prefered not to have one, but as a combo bike, it needs to be a consideration at least.

    What are you working on these days Joe?
    How is the twin DR you built doing?
    Feel free to harrass me...I deserve it. :lol3 You owe me a few kicks.
    #32
  13. DRjoe

    DRjoe Long timer

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    The dr500 is still unfinished I've been to busy working on this old thing

    [​IMG]
    #33
  14. sailah

    sailah Lampin' it

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    Want. Bad.
    #34
  15. kellymac530

    kellymac530 motorcycle addict

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    Drjoe,
    I bet you hate every minute of working on that orange koolaide pig.
    :rofl

    Me want too sailah, me just cant afford and they out of my range. I, like you 2 want something completely...to quote the Monty Python crew :D

    Although the more I search for ideas on here the more I find what I am doing is not THAT different....
    #35
  16. larryboy

    larryboy Chopper Rider

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    I prefer a fairing and lights that turn with the bars. I ride nasty terrain at night fairly often and I like to be able to point my lights where I want to see, really helps to pick a line. I can't tell any difference when I add weight to the forks, but I'm pretty big and don't like steering dampers either, my arms can handle it.

    All of that is fork mounted:

    [​IMG]



    I don't like low fenders, it's a good way to throw yourself over the bars and right down the road on your back, especially if it has dual discs with a crossover brake line. High fender on a boxer is fine, just make sure the oil cooler can get some air.


    Fork mounted lights, fairing and gauges, HID ballasts too. High fender, 320 mm rotor, twin piston caliper, skinny spokes, no steering damper, .49 kg springs...no issues:

    [​IMG]
    #36
  17. Donkey Hotey

    Donkey Hotey De Jo Momma

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    Way to hijack your own thread! I can almost see the spittle on the screen! :rofl
    #37
  18. kellymac530

    kellymac530 motorcycle addict

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    I will make Momma spank me for the hi-jack :rofl
    #38
  19. boatpuller

    boatpuller Been here awhile

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    What forks did you use for that BMW conversion?
    #39
  20. jesusgatos

    jesusgatos fishing with dynamite

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    You can have your cake and eat it too. Mount the lights to the frame and connect them to the forks with linkage so they turn with the steering. Some of the Baja teams used to do that with the big dual 8" racelights.
    #40